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Drag Turbo Hp Is Crappy...help!

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by Turbo-mind, Jun 5, 2003.

  1. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    :) Hi people...Please help on my Drag turbo...

    DRAG cast iron
    Turbonetics-Garrett T3/T04B
    Vortec fuel management unit
    Airtex high pressure fuel pump
    Spearco intercooler DRAG aluminum end tanks
    Turbonetics Deltagate wastegate (5-7 PSI)
    Greddy Type-S blowoff valve
    mandrel-bent intercooler, piping 2.25-inch chromed

    - I'm upset in HP after install is turbo....It in my 98 accord and the reading is 40hp at 5-6psi stock internal....
    Do you guys think is this the right number giving out by the shop...cause I seen some dude run like 7psi and has over 100 Horse on their car....any know how they get that much power from little more boost?
    - Also, was it ok if I crank my boost up to 7 or 8 psi on my Vortec FMU + Airtex high fuel pump??Was it safe?...and how much HP/TQ can I get from it to be correct???? just a ballpark..

    Thanks very much....Help will be appreciated....
  2. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    the to4b is a SMALLER turbo than most people run, the to4e so right away, you are at a disadvantage for HP per psi.

    second, you are running crap fuel management. Have you been to the dyno and tuned? of course not, you have nothing TO tune. straight up- the FMU style of management sucks. look into getting an apexi SAFC and run the vafc hack with it (info on http://www.thedropshop.tv). you will notice more power right away with that.

    thrid, what are you running for exhaust? downpipe? if either aren't 3", its holding you back
  3. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    ;) Hey you probably right...well havn't tuned yet or dyno...You think if I tune with better fuel manage will give me better HP/TQ number in same PSI???
    I'm not really a throw in race car...just want hit like 70 or better HP gain is strait for me...Can I do it with this hybrid turbo? or it too small for it??...what I can do to get clost to that number?..Apexi AFC works? can I keep my injector or swap it to little bigger?

    And for exhaust ...just got greddy SP type...60mm piping..was this good??or need little bigger piping?
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    most definitly, tuned you will see more power, and last longer, and get better fuel economy.
    but with an fmu, you have nothing TO tune.
    the SAFC works pretty good in the "hack" for low boost- which is what you are shooting for.

    what size injectors are you running now? you never mentioned. you should have at least 440s

    60mm = 2 1/2" roughly, and imo its too small. same with the downpipe. its up to you if you want to spend money on a 3" system, but it will most definitely help you with power.
  5. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    I had a stock injector for accord 98..I had a thermal exhaust 2.25 it loud so i switch to 2.5 greddy...good sound though.I think i'm gonna keep it at 2.5..some people say too big of a piping can sometime creat lag..maybe...

    Yeah I think that my first thing, get a apexi AFC and get it tuned first...440 injector sound good, but was it little big? or that just good sizing?....

    Was that all I needed?..just Fuel management and injector, tuned??? you know how the hook up Apexi like? was it hack into the ECU to measure stuff??or something else.... And also one more thing..how much horse horse or torque you think I can benefit from those running about 8psi compare to before 40hp at 6psi before...I mean what a ballpark of power can i get from 7-8psi
  6. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    stock injectors are a little small. you might want to upgrade

    exhaust- just the opposite. you want next to NO backpressure on a boosted car.

    440s are not too big, go for 'em.

    yeah- basically, take off the FMU, and the missing link if you have one, read up on the vafc hack (at thedropshop.tv website i linked above) and get your self setup and running like that with no map code. Then, take it to get dynoed on a wideband o2 dyno with someone who knows what they are doing with the hack.
    if you want more boost, you are going to need a boost controller as well.
    ball park... i won't make any guesses. it all depends on tuning man. get a good tuner
  7. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    Hey...that what I needed...thanks a lot for the info bro. Definately needed.

    One last question, What you think the safe bet psi for 440 injector with apexi and tuned stuff? 10?

    Second, :rolleyes: you got an sol? why you name pissoffsol? what sup? :D
  8. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    i'd keep it at 8psi with the hack.. its BETTER than the fmu, but its still not the best.
    again, its your call.... but the higher you go, the less reliable it will be. the hack supports 11 psi on th emap sensor with 440-450 sized injectors. basically, what you do is you get large injectors, and tune the fuel to negative 40-ish on the afc, which in turn, alters to voltage of the map sensor and tricks your computer into not seeing boost. (remeber, it all runs off voltages... and with it tuned way down, but more psi, it will think its still NA)

    yes, i have a del sol, and my name goes a way back.... too long of a story to type :)
  9. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    Hey I think I get the point you tell me....Thanks a lot for the tip dude..definately help out...
    Anyways thanks again for the tip see you around bro... B) B) B)
  10. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED


    good luck
  11. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    Hey bro...I was just at the shop and they said they does it....so tuning with Apexi hack is alset, but do they have to
    retard the timing or changing any ratio during the tuning?...
  12. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    Or just plug in the Apexi hack and 440 injector and tune it that it.....
  13. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    there is no way to change the ignition timing with the apex. its an air/fuel controller, thats all. best bet would be to retard the timing on the distributor by physically moving it back a few degrees... which if memory servers me, is moving it towards the front of the car (don't quote me on that). bump it a few, or have the shop do it for you. 2-3 degrees should be fine, as you want about .75 degree of retard ignition per pound of boost. but, you can't do it well with out a stand alone. because, at idel, you will be retarded 2-3 degrees, and making no boost till 3-4k or so when the turbo spools...
  14. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    there is a BTM product-- boost timing retard is what it stands for.

    it looks liek this-


    i have no idea where to get it, or how to do it.
    but that will save you from messign with the dizzy. that will give you your retard per psi of boost at your finger tips

    also, please note, that the vafc hack uses DSM (aka mitsubishi) 450cc peak/hold injectors. i BELEIVE your car is saturated style, so you will need to run a resistor box.

    rc 440's would be the saturated style, and more expeisive. the dsm's are cheap. like 50 bucks for all 4.
  15. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

  16. hondaguy72

    hondaguy72 Member

    Forget the btm and other add-on computers and go with a hondata. The problem with BTM units is that regardless of load, the btm takes out timing per boost. The motor doesn't always need less timing with boost. I have a msd6btm box and have disconnected the boost feature in favor of the hondata computer...I prefer no compromises in driveability, safety and power.
  17. hondaguy72

    hondaguy72 Member

    By the way dumbass, BTM stands for boost timing master.
  18. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    watch who you call dumbass fuckface.

    there is no accord ecu for hondata. no f-series anyway. Yes, you can get away with another one... but still.

    boost timing master - boost timing retard... i stated what it does, did i not?

    go be a fucking annoying noob somewhere else if this is all you have to add
  19. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    So what exactly the procedure on my F-series engine to increase my boost guys??
    I'm planning go for 310 or 370 injector or 440 if works fine with Apexi SAFC to control those...
    With that setup could I be able to increase my boost to 8psi ? the replacement of my current FMU running 5-6psi...

    Anyways, If I go out buy the injector do they just offer me for resistor box with it or I have to buy it seperately?..
    and can anyone give me a idea what exactly the resistor box does to injector....If ya can...

    Any ideas on helping me increase boost will appreciated...thanks guyss
  20. Turbo-mind

    Turbo-mind Junior Member

    And also, what the different between an Apexi SAFC and VAFC...super/vtec i know, but what exactly different in internal....Was it just name different but works same...or it just same unit differ name....

    what should I get for my F-series engine to get little more boost out of my aftermarket turbo.???? SAFC or VAFC to be correct!!!

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