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Identify Swapped Suspension components?

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by luciusad2004, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    The previous owner swapped out the brakes on my EF hatch to Integra brakes and i was wondering if there was anyway to identify suspension components and find out what model they came out of.

    The reason I'm curious is that, my car has positive camber in the front even after being lowered a bit (normally resulting in negative camber). Its actually worse now than when i purchased it because i raised it up a bit from were the previous owner had it (He had it sitting as low as the Ebay coil sleeves would go, of course). I've read that some owners mistakenly use the Integra upper control arms when they swap in the teg knuckles and spindles and that this could cause issues with positive camber. Would there be any sort of number or identifying mark stamped on my UCAs that i could reference to find out if they were Integra parts or civic parts? I'm looking to possibly purchase some stock EF ones as Skunk2 seems to be perpetually backordered with there EF camber kits but i don't want to purchase something if thats not actually the problem.

    I'm also curious to find out what brakes i actually have as the previous owner told me they were Type R brakes but ITR brakes would be 5 lug wouldn't they and mine are only 4. I might also consider going back to stock civic knuckles and brakes simply for ease of maintenance but at the moment I'm more worried about the positive camber than anything.

    Also : I know i don't need a camber kit to fix tire wear. This is not about tire wear. I'm more concerned about the effects my jacked up camber could have on handling and performance. It also looks kinda silly having negative camber in the rear and positive camber in the front.

    Thanks for any help. I'm to the point were I might just buy some used EF UCAs to see if that fixes the problem.
     
  2. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    What wheels do you have? Earlier ITRs have 4-lug also but a wider patter(same as Accords; 4x114.3 vs. regular 4x100 on Civics). The ITRs also used a larger front brake disc diameter(11").

    Also, what year Integra did he use? If he used 94-01 Integra knuckles, it will indefinitely have positive camber and you'd need custom UCA or lower it about 4" to get zero camber.
     
  3. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    I'm not sure what year it is, thats what I'm trying to figure out. The biggest problem I've had since i got the car is that i just really don't know whats in it. My engine is a b18a1 so i was running with the assumption that maybe he had a parts car (90-93) and that the knuckles and everything came out of that but i really don't know. My head is newer than my block so I guess it's possible that my front suspension is out of yet another entirely different car.

    The bolt pattern is 4 lug though and my wheels fit on the stock drums in the back so i assume it's still 4x100.

    Would the skunk2 camber kit be a suitable solution to my problem? I'm still thinking about swapping in the original suspension if i can get my hands on it. I'd happily take the hit on braking power.
     
  4. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    I'm not sure if a camber kit would work depending on how much camber there is, as most kits are designed to dial "out" camber(push knuckles out to reduce negative camber). I have Skunk2 UCA that I can measure but don't have the stock arms to compare to.

    If he used DA UCAs, but stock or DA knuckles, then that could be the problem too as they're longer than EF ones.
     
  5. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    So the S2 camber kit wont let me dial in Negative camber? That sounds like $250 game of chance hoping that it'll solve my problems. I actually ordered it a while ago but I'm just not sure if they will be hear before I'm due for inspection.

    I might just take the chance on some used EF UCAs then. I've seen them floating around for $40 on a few part out threads. I'm only dropped 1.5 inches since I put in new struts and springs so i could probably live with the little bit of negative camber it gives me. If i decide to go back to Stock brakes does anyone know what sub-models I would need to get the knuckles from? I read that the std knuckles wont fit the b series axles. I know the EX had the nice big brakes up front but they are supposedly rare.
     
  6. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Thanks for all the help by the way. I appreciate it.



    Also... is there no edit button on these forums?
     
  7. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    There is, at least for me. Maybe once you have enough posts to get rid of the "Greenhorn" title you can edit your posts.

    I already have the Skunk2 UCA for EF; so if you get the measurements for stock I can compare it and let you know. If it's indeed the UCA causing the camber issue then the S2 UCAs will work perfectly fine.

    Std/HF have the small splines; DX/Si/EX will work completely fine though it's suggested you remove the dust cap for B-series(gives a little extra clearance). 90-91 EX isn't as rare as people make it out to be, at least not here. They had one at the junkyard I got mine from, but there were also EXs at 2 other junkyards I went to.
     
  8. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Awesome, thanks a ton. I might work on the car later, or over the weekend and maybe i can measure it. What should i measure? Should i measure from he chassis to the center off the balljoint?

    If i can get the camber issue fixed i might hold on to the Teg knuckles but I'm not sure yet. When I went to the mechanic for some work he had a hell of a time finding parts and was not pleased with having to do work on my car. I know its mostly my fault though for purchasing a car without knowing what all is in it. I wasn't capable of giving him the info he needed so he pretty much had to just guess at parts.

    Would I be able to just bolt on the knuckles if i get them or would I have to replace other components as well such as the wheel hub and/or bearings? The nice thing about my Teg knuckles it that the axles fit without having to take the dust boot off lol. I was under the impression that not having a dust boot was a no go when it comes to Inspections. I plan on Hasport axles eventually anyway. I just have to sort out some other things first before I can dedicate the money to them.

    I'm actually not far from 'harry's you pull it' in PA, It's supposed to be one of the bigger junkyards in the this part of the US but last time i went up looking for Honda parts I found that most of the Honda's get picked apart as soon as they drop them on the lot, but I can def keep my eyes open for an EX when i run up there.
     
  9. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    You may be thinking about the axle CV boot. Most people don't even realize there's a dust cap there so I doubt any inspectors would see it(it's between the axle joint and the wheel bearing on the knuckle).

    Yes, the knuckles would bolt up fine(though a alignment afterward is highly recommended). You can change the wheel bearing as a maintenance in case it ever goes out in the future. It should be noted that 90-91 EX front hubs are no longer available and you'd have to use regular Si/DX ones.

    It would be easier to measure with the UCA out of the car if you can; from the bushings to the ball joint is fine. Just as long as you can describe how you measured it so I can do it the same way(different methods would result in skewed results, of course).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  10. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Are the UCA's hard to get off? I'm sure i could manage to unbolt them from the chassis but i'm more worried about how hard it is to deal with the ball joint. My tool collection is still some what limited. I could measure them from the bushings to the ball joint and take pics to show you how i did it. Should i measure both sides for you? or would they (hopefully) be the same anyway.

    And I did think you were talking about the CV Boot, where is the dust cap located?
     
  11. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Ball joint is a little harder to get off but if you loosen the bushings from the towers you can rotate them(ball joint as pivot) which makes it easier to measure. One side should be fine.

    Dust cap is #2
    [​IMG]
     
  12. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Awesome. So just detatch it from the chassis and spin around at the ball joint. That sounds easy enough.

    I'll try to get to it this weekend, but apparently my buddies landlord is putting in a new garage door and has sort of taken over the garage for the time being. We'll see what happens but i might be able to get to it sunday if he's done by then. If not i'll measure it as soon as the garage is available to me. It kinda sucks actually, I planned on using the garage this weekend for a bunch of work.
     
  13. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Ok I'm not sure if I measured them right but this is how i did it. I didn't realize you could take the bushing assembly off the shock tower until after I had it taken apart. So hears how i did it.

    I loosened the UCA from the bushings and spun it around. I then just slid a screw driver through werar the bushings would mount and then measured from the center of the ball joint to the line going through the bushings. I got about 7 inches.

    [​IMG]

    oh and you were right, i have edit function now. I dont understand why noobs can't edit though.

    Edit: let me know if you need me to measure it different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  14. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    OK I got ~7.5"-6" using that method; so you should be able to correct the camber a little.
     
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  15. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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  16. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Okay so i got the skunk2 UCAs and installed them and now my car is pretty much undriveable. They def straightened out the camber issue though.

    When i get on the gas just even the slightest bit my car just pulls all the way to the left. The entire wheel spins and just keeps going until it hits the end of its rotation. I couldn't even make it down the street.

    I know i need to get the car aligned but would an alignment issue be this severe or is it likely I messed something up when i installed them. the car was at least driveable before I put the UCAs in.
     
  17. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    It's got to just be the alignment. Can you eyeball it and if so, does it look straight? Arms installed on correct sides?

    You can do something like this to check alignment: DIY R Alignment: The Quick Method - Honda-Tech

    I used a a pole, jackstands, fishing line, and a square to do something similar. It's not perfect but would at least make it driveable.
     
  18. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    The camber looks straight, the toe has been messed up since i got the car but it was always still driveable before. I suppose its possible the new arms have thrown the toe more out of whack considering my old arms were from a different car.

    Right side of the car is passenger side and Left side is driver side yes? Thats how i did it.

    I can give the DIY alignment a shot tomorrow. I need to schedual an alignment somewhere. (I know I'm not likely gonna find anyone to take it in on one day notice) I might also try dialing out the camber back to were it was to see if that helps at all. The differnce is remarkable though. I couldn't get on the gas at all, didn't even try to get it out of first gear. When I turned I could just hear the tires squealing across the pavement.

    thanks for the help.
     
  19. luciusad2004

    luciusad2004 Member

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    Ok i went and took a look at it this morning, everything is tightened up and mostly straight "looking" I gotta get to the store to buy stuff and try the diy alignment though. However i did Notice that there is a bump on the back of the knuckle that is grinding against the inside of the camber kit. Would this possibly be causing my steering issues? I'm going to back out the camber and see how it drives. as it is I can't even go to the store or the shop to even try to align the car.

    I have integra spindles on my car as the previous owner did a brake swap. I imagine its possible that the size and shape of the integra spindles is interfering with the camber kit. If that's the issue I wont be able to correct my camber without getting new spindles at which point i will have replaced the majority of the front suspension.

    Anyone have any experience with Integra spindles + and EF camber kit In an EF hatch?

    Edit: Ok i added positive camber and it fixed the issue. The issue is that when the camber kit is pushed fully negative there is a little bump on the top rear part of the spindle that binds with the camber kit. I actually should have noticed last night. I noticed after dropping my car down that when I pushed down on the fenders it felt like my struts were super stiff. My car also seemed like it wasn't as low as it normally was. This is why, I lost all up and down movement in my suspension and the Spindle was trying to turn to free itself under the weight of the car wich is why the car was pulling. the car is driveable now but I can't effectively dial out my positive camber. I might tinker with it some more later and see how much negative camber i can add before I run in to binding issues.

    If I can't get it straight I'm probably gonna look to get civic spindles. Anyone know what spindles work with b series axles and are easyish to find? DX spindles?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  20. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Glad you got it fixed.

    Yes, DX, Si, and EX knuckles work work just fine(90-91 EX has larger brakes if you're interested in that). Only thing you may have to do is remove the metal "dust ring"(it just pops out).
     
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