Mmmm I could use this

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Well, it's all about the weight man. The 327 RS's weighed less than the 350/396 SS's. a couple mods to the cam and headers, and you'd have just as much power from the 327s, that with a lighter car and a nice muncie four speed and you'd pull from a 350 SS...which ran 15.4s back in the day...which is STILL faster than my SI stock for stock.


You simply cannot compare carbuerated, fuel wasting, 4000 lb muscle cars of the 60s and 70s to today's fuel injected, computer controlled cars.

But, compare the 02 SS/Z28 to an 02 Civic and you'll have your ass handed to you every time by the Chevy stock for stock. :ph34r:

But, the guy in the Civic will have the last laugh at the gas station after the race. :p


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drooooooooool......I have a model of a Honda CBR600F4. Isn't that what yours is? What year is it? the headlights on this model look different from yours.
 
the F4 was a carb model made I believe 98-00 IMO they look like total ASSSSSS

they have a single headlight that looks just like a EX250/500 headlight as with having a Banana seat "one peice cruser like seat"

friggin ugly ass bikes

I hate when people compair a lets say Civic SI with a Camaro SS

Civic SI 16K Camaro SS 28-30K

um yeah

then when you go to sell the Civic SI you still have its resale value when you go to sell the SS well.... um once again Camaros/Firebirds hold no resale value

if you want my friend has a 97 WS6 he CANNOT get rid of it has 70K miles on it red in great cond he wants to buy my car but no one wants his car lol

he paid I think 16K for it last year and right now the book value on the car is 10.800 hes asking 10K but has yet to get the car to move

also might I add hes paying over 400 a month for insurance
 
I don't care about resale value. If you get a muscle car, build it for 1000 hp and have fun with it. The SS, sure it started at 26k, but if you get a Z28 you got yourself a 22k base sub 14 second torque monster. No Honda offers that for 22k.

I'm talking about speed from the factory. Don't tell me the SI isn't built for speed, because it's built for speed and fuel economy. Those two don't mix to give impressive numbers.

I dont' want to get into a stupid ass arguement here. I know what you mean by your side Jeffie, but my feeling is if you want fast quick, get a V8, if you want good fuel economy in a nice looking car that's relatively fast, and can be built rather cheaply, get an I4 with some potential.
 
Originally posted by jeffie7@Oct 18 2003, 06:30 AM
if you want my friend has a 97 WS6 he CANNOT get rid of it has 70K miles on it red in great cond he wants to buy my car but no one wants his car lol

he paid I think 16K for it last year and right now the book value on the car is 10.800 hes asking 10K but has yet to get the car to move

also might I add hes paying over 400 a month for insurance
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Ok I gotta comment on this specifically

My car, 2000 SI with almost 40k miles and the options would have a trade in of 12k.

2000 Trans Am, with almost 40k miles and the options would have a trade in of 13.7k.

Of course his trade in value is going to be low, it's a 6 (almost 7) year old car with 70,000 miles on it. A 97 Honda anything with 70k miles on it won't sell for anywhere NEAR what he's asking for his WS6. (Kbb estimates about $5800)

I dunno man....I don't think it's fair you're basing your decision on a 7 year old car with more mileage than it's supposed to have anyway. :ph34r:

It's all good though. :p
 
ok your civic traded in at 12K would have lost what 30% of its value as where the SS at 13.7K would have lost over 50% but on paper the SS looks better becuase its still higher priced then the civic

bottom line you're right if you want to spend 15K more for a V8 that has insurance rates at the ass eats gas and holds no value then be my guest

I would much rather spend the same amount of money and buy a STI/EVO

or if you want to have a pissing match over stock cars no matter what the price then why the hell would you buy a V8 when you could buy a 80K dollar V10 "viper"

if I had 28K to spend on buying/building a SI/GSR I could get the car to run 10s

if I had 28K to spend on a SS I could get the car to run um well um what is stock times? 13.2? wait let me build a wild N/A motor or super charge it ok now I have a 40K car with no resale value

YAY

on top of that I pay 100 a month for insurance VS 400-500 a month for a SS lets see thats also an extra $4800-6000 a year just to keep it on the road!!!!!!!

you are VERY VERY VERY right

stock for stock if money is nothing but free stuff then you're right a STOCK SS will out run a stock SI anyday

0-60 1/4 mile

1990 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 6.5 15.0
1992 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 6.7 15.2
1993 Chevrolet Camaro V-6 9.0 16.6
1993 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.8 14.4
1994 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.7 14.2
1994 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Conv. 6.2 14.5
1995 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.7 14.2
1995 Chevrolet Camaro 3800 7.4 15.7
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.7 14.1
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS 5.3 13.8
1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.2 13.7
1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS 5.2 13.6

edit my sheet did not have past 98 I do know that after 97 they went to the LS1 motor and made more power as with faster times
 
My point is, people who know the potential of a V8, don't sell it, even after they have it running 9s in the 1/4. I personally would rather drive the car into the ground instead of selling it.

I don't care about resale value, but lets see, spend your 15k for the GSR, and then spend the other 13K to get it to run 10s and then sell it for 10k, yeah that's just as economical as tryin to sell a stock SS. <_<

The bang for the buck meter also comes into effect for me. Low 13s for 24K, (I'm talkin about the Z28) or high 15s for 18k (my SI, new). I dunno. I'd rather have something that people won't go "aw shit next week he's gonna have a wing on that thing" to. :shrug2:

Not to mention the fun that can be had in drifting the RWD car. :p

People that truly can afford a Muscle car don't worry about spending money on insurance, because they're old and mature enough so that their rates aren't $400 a month to drive the car as a "status symbol."


I think I know where you got that list from...

could it be... Here?? :p
 
Im still lost as to WHY you bought a honda

for some one who seems to dislike them so much it was really a dumb buy and an SI at that! I would have just bought a basic 4-5K EX and drive it till you save enough money to buy your V8 and pay for insurance
then engine how well 350s hold up YES parts are cheap but after 100K you're pushing it unless you baby it

I've raced WAY to many people when I was all motor and back in the day when I had my 280ZXT most all Camaro guys said the same thing well um uh uh um well it needs to be rebuilt I have almost 100K so um it um needs to be redone
 
I bought a Honda because it's cheap and reliable. I never said I HATED Honda's.

Liking Camaro's just gives me something to look forward to. I love the look, I love the LS1s, I love the body, I love the cheap plastic interior...I probably like them as much/even more than you like your bike. To each his own I guess.

When I watch videos of V8s doing burnouts and ripping off 11 and 12 second quarters, (these cars being nearly stock from the factory)... I get a hardon. :p

But then I snap back into reality I realize that insurance on a V8 is too much at this point in my life, & at that point I'm VERY thankful that I kept my cool and bought the Si. I wanted something that WAS in fact performance oriented, like the Si, which to me is upgrading from my 127 hp Escort. It's not a huge upgrade, but I'm not complaining.

When you see me make fun of Honda's, it's all in good fun. I mean I drive one now, why can't I? ;)

Besides that a 100k rebuild rarely happens, because people usually just dump the car and tell everyone how the reliability sucks after they've driven the car hard and put it away wet every time they turned the ignition on. Other people will drive it about 10k miles on the original oil, and then turn around and tell people how the reliability still sucks. I work with a guy who used to work at a Chevy Dealer...he's heard it all. :)


I'm unclear on how fast 280ZXs are from the factory, but if you had it while you were racing 92-97 Camaros, you were beating the POS LT1 350, and the earlier 305 TPIs. Which aren't really all that quick.
 
old muscle cars are great for character, but the bottom line is they aren't that impressive. My dad used to build them. He said he had cars close to 1000hp, and while that was all well and good, you couldn't a.) take the thing around a fucking corner b.) keep the tires hooked up.

So basically they turn into big fuckin useless straight line drag cars.
 
I think that you guys are comparing two totally different things, that have nothing in common.

-Yes its true that muscle cars usually run kinda slow ET's for the HP that they have.

-Yes its tru that a Honda could beat a V8

-But the thing is, driving a sports car with a V8 is a totally different experience. Personally I love both. I love Hondas because they are quick, responsive, and rev high. A mustang or camaro is different because you can feel the power in them, especially when the front end picks up and starts to twist one wheel off the ground, hell yeah. The sound of a loud V8 taking off is awesome. I dont think its fair to compare them , It just doesn't make sense. That is kinda what i am disputing right now, should i buy a 89 'Stang and modify it, or another CRX and drop a GSR in there. They both cost about the same to buy, and both could run about the same ET's with the right mods, and yes the shitty gas mileage is worht it to me. It's jsut a debate between the two.

Oh and just to clarify, Whoever posted those pics of that orange Camaro said it was between 67-70. wrong for two reasons:

1. 67-69 was the 1st Gen of Camaros, for '70 there was a whole new style body, which then ran until '83 or around there, with only a few minor changes in between.

2. That car is '69. It is easily identifiable because of the gill slits in front of the rear fender. The 67 and 68's did not have those.
 
Originally posted by senate_9427@Oct 20 2003, 02:06 AM
Oh and just to clarify, Whoever posted those pics of that orange Camaro said it was between 67-70. wrong for two reasons:

1. 67-69 was the 1st Gen of Camaros, for '70 there was a whole new style body, which then ran until '83 or around there, with only a few minor changes in between.

2. That car is '69. It is easily identifiable because of the gill slits in front of the rear fender. The 67 and 68's did not have those.
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Sorry I meant 67-69 but I didn't think about it until you just said something.

I know the generations by heart:

1st gen: 67-69 (first Camaro was built on September 26, 1966)
2nd gen: 70-82 (no more convertibles)
3rd gen: 82-92 (IROC introduced in 1985, verts return in 87)
4th gen: 94-02 (with a redesign of the front fascia in 1998)

Last Camaro built was a red Z28 which sold at auction for $72,000. :eek:


Your 2nd account tells me I'm wrong, but I said it was in the 67-69 era. So I was right. I hadn't looked it up so I generalized the year. ;)
 
Originally posted by sleepergtx@Oct 19 2003, 09:52 PM
3rd gen: 82-92 (IROC introduced in 1985, verts return in 87)
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Oh yeah, the IROC's were cool. My friends got an '85 IROC Z. That shit is pretty quick, but they are a bitch under the hood with all the smog shit. He took it all off and plugged everything, then threw a new IM and 650 carb on there, made a big difference
 
Well, you can't beat a V8 in performance, but you can beat them in quality, price, and performance. What I mean by that, is you have have to spend huge amounts of money to get that V8 to run awesome times, where as the civic, because it is so light, can run quick times with less cash/cost. That includes gas, insurance, parts etc. As for resale value, the domestics get bad resale value, not just camaro's. A buddy of mine bought an SVT Focus in 2002, he had it for a year, and decided he wanted something big, so he traded it in, I don't remember the mileage, but all he got was $7,000 for the damn thing. I know right now the resale on my SI is $14,500, with 40,000 miles and is a 2002. Economically, imports are the way to go, power wise, with money not an issue Domestics. Simple as that.
 
Yeah , thats true. And i think Mustangs are about the worst cars for depreciation. You can pick up a 2002 V6 for like 7 or 8K, a GT for under 10K. Cool for the buyer, but not for the one trading it in.
 
I don't know if they drop that much in value, especially since the dealer jacks the price up 3-4 thousand bucks, from the trade-in, they need to make some money off of it too. Think about it, a V-6 Mustan for 6-7 grand, that means somebody TOOK the trade in of $2,000, no way, I would buy a V-6 Mustang for $2,000. Maybe from $20,000 to around 10-14 thousand, but not that much.
 
Originally posted by Frankie P.@Oct 20 2003, 01:58 PM
Well, you can't beat a V8 in performance, but you can beat them in quality, price, and performance. What I mean by that, is you have have to spend huge amounts of money to get that V8 to run awesome times, where as the civic, because it is so light, can run quick times with less cash/cost. That includes gas, insurance, parts etc. As for resale value, the domestics get bad resale value, not just camaro's. A buddy of mine bought an SVT Focus in 2002, he had it for a year, and decided he wanted something big, so he traded it in, I don't remember the mileage, but all he got was $7,000 for the damn thing. I know right now the resale on my SI is $14,500, with 40,000 miles and is a 2002. Economically, imports are the way to go, power wise, with money not an issue Domestics. Simple as that.
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You're telling me the car depreciated $11,000 in one year? :huh:


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Oh...and...

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There is no way in fucking hell the car depreciated 59% of it's value in 1 year, I don't care if it's a domestic. If he let the dealer give him 7k for the SVT of all the Focus line up, then he musta just pulled his pants down and lubed up his own ass for them too.
 
Originally posted by liquid00meth@Oct 20 2003, 10:59 PM
I know the Camaro generations by heart too

67-69 Sweet
70-02 Introduced "piece of shit" trim package as standard equipment
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True on both accounts. B)
 
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