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MUGEN chip ???

Discussion in 'ECU's, Electronics, and Tuning' started by TypeKoshiR, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. TypeKoshiR

    TypeKoshiR Junior Member

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    I hope I'll get your attencion with this post cause in here we are all wondering if my engine will hold or it'll blow up...like the previus one (D16A9) :(

    So here is the plan I intend to put Mugen aggressive chip
    (4400rpm VTEC starts, 10.000 rpm limit) in...

    And the current set up that should be able to rev so high:

    Engine: B16A2
    Modiffication::
    -head job done(port & polish)
    -ITR valves
    -ITR cam gear + cam shafts
    -ITR valve springs
    -ITR retainers
    -NA performance pistons
    -mugen head gasket (performance)
    -4-1 mugen copy header fi 60mm-OUT
    -performance clutch

    So my q. is will my engine rev so high with out any problems or is that just to hard for that set up and I must settle for other chip like SKUNK2 or something like that (I did put that one in friends 92' civic HB VTEC) and I must say it runs pretty good...

    Or if you have any advices what all I must improve that my engine will run fine with that mugen chip, cause I really want to put that one in!!!

    THNX for al advices!!!
    I really apriciate it!!!!

    CYA
     
  2. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Those cams won't breath at 10K and I would not trust those springs and retainers at 10K either.

    Why are you chipping? What are you hoping to gain?

    Unless you have someone very reputable designing a chip for you, or you have something like a VAFC to tweak the fuel maps I wouldn't bother with a generic chip. Get a Hondata.
     
  3. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    :withstupid:
    type R cams dont make power at 10k and i wouldnt rev over 8500-9000 on the type R valvetrain
    4400 is way too low to switch lobes your gunna get a lot of lag after the switch
    "mugen" or other generic chips generally suck ass
     
  4. HardLowrdRanger

    HardLowrdRanger Member

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    Exactly, generic chips suck mostly, there are some that are actually real tunes and they do give benefits... Most won't do what you're looking for, you'd be better off with a custom tune... And honestly, if the dude you're getting the chip from can't even change the rev limiter for you, don't get it from him... =P
     
  5. Gen2Teg

    Gen2Teg Senior Member

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    generic chips are good enough if your too cheap to get a VAFC, like me.
     
  6. TypeKoshiR

    TypeKoshiR Junior Member

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    I don't get it guys how come you don't like chips, I've had on the previus engine D16A9 (orig. 130HP) Superchip that had rpm limit at cca. 8000rpm stock ECU had limit on 7300rpm and I must tell you guys that chip was amaizing, with 4-2-1 racing header + stainless steal totally opened racing exhaust + CAI I achived 162.8 HP dynoed!!!

    And about ITR parts stock integra typeR has orig. limit on 9000rpm and I bet It could go higher easily, the mechanic who is modiffying my engine is also mechanic for rally cars in here and he is fixing honda ITR for races and he said that those parts from ITR should easely take 10k rpm and more they've tried that already...

    I would like to buy hondata ECU but I'm so broke right now I've bearly bought all those parts for my engine and I still have to buy some little things for it so hondata will probobly go in later maybe next year plan!

    Anybody that tried that chip on his car ???
    Any experinces, postive : negative


    Thank you for helping me,
    I just don't want to blow up another engine it toke me 6 month to buy new engine and parts that I wanned for this swap

    CYA


    P.S.: sorry I'm new and I didn't see that you've got that seperet :unsure:
     
  7. HardLowrdRanger

    HardLowrdRanger Member

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    I do like chips, I custom make them for people on a daily basis... I don't like fake chips or generic chips that are all the same with different rev limits/vtec points and different names... eBay chips come to mind... I had someone who bought 5 different eBay chips to test which was better and tried them all out. He sent them to me asking why he couldn't feel a difference. Turns out they were exactly the same other than the rev limits and vtec points, the guy got ripped off... If you're going to get a chip, get it done right, or at least get one that's tuned closer to your specs not just generic or "universal"...

    James
     
  8. deth101

    deth101 Senior Member

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    awesome...go for it but no sympathy for crying here when ur sh1t's all busted-up...

    "
     
  9. blundar

    blundar Senior Member

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    you're an idiot to rev that motor past 9000.

    ITR cams on every single fucking dyno chart I've ever seen are done producing power by mid-high 8000s.

    remember, forces on bearings, rods, crank increase by the SQUARE of RPM. double RPM = quadruple forces.

    Why put your motor through that when it doesn't help?
     
  10. TypeKoshiR

    TypeKoshiR Junior Member

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    Hmmm you guys did some work to me now :rolleyes:
    Now I must check all the chips and decide which one to buy,
    cause right now I don't have enough money for hondata ECU :( I know that that is the best solution if you're tuning your engine, but I thought that for beging it would be enough chiped ECU like in previus ECU...

    Who do you guys recomed,
    who has the real stuff the rpm,vtec, and changed fuel maps...

    Please I need help urgently so I can order one soon cause I want to put this engine in late August and I know that on stock OBD1 or OBD2 it won't work like it should!!!

    One friend of mine is runing ITR cams right now on 9000 rpm and vtec kicks on 5000rpm I think, he's got B18C4 engine with those ITR parts that I intend to put in so basiclly the same set up, with that differnce that he's got mugen pistons and I'll get some other performance pistons...and that I'm doin' it on b16 and his is on b18 engine, what I'm tryin' to say that 9000rpm is not the limit they've prepaired ECU on the dyno and the guy said that his max power is much higher then 9k rpm so now he's getin' new chip with changes in his fuel map and with much higher rpm limit!!!

    So don't think that 9k rpm is the end for ITR that is plain stock :sleep:

    CYA
    Thanks for all advices I apricate your help

    P.S.: the last engine blow up cause I push it to hard to long, I was drivin' on a highway up and down (crusin' to get some parts) at least 150 miles and almost all at top speed... so on the way home I tried to achieve 7500rpm in fifth gear to see how much the top speed would be...but the max rpm that a reached in fifth gear was a little over 7300rpm we calculated and the max speed at that time was 242.8km/h I have an autometer RPM in so the rpms are correct, so achieved that and then step it of but I did push it for at least 25 miles on that speed and nothing happend and when I slow down and get bored I pushed it again and then at at least 160km/h something start to rumble in the engine and it shut down and when I drove and stop beside the road my car went on fire, so I barly put the fire down and the next day we checked what went wrong and see that I had huge whole in my engine block one of the rods broke and decide to get out :(

    So that is the whole story with my old engine and it had 280.000km done on it!!!! RIP
     
  11. blundar

    blundar Senior Member

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    James (HardLowrdRanger) is probably one of the most helpful tuners I know, and he can probably get clsoer to what you need than any other chip you will find on Ebay, or similar.

    There are quite a few chips and ROMeditors available over on PGMFI.org ... if you feel like trying it yourself I encourage you to investigate.
     
  12. HardLowrdRanger

    HardLowrdRanger Member

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    Ya, I can create a custom chip for your specs that will run HARD... Like blundar said, there are other solutions besides Hondata that are much more inexpensive... There's a ton of info on doing all this yourself at pgmfi...

    James
     
  13. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i'm a firm believer that without dyno tuning, no custom chip can be made just based on what mods you have.
     
  14. omega11855

    omega11855 Senior Member

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    i agree with pills to me people who try to tune without a dyno sheet are somewhat pointless because u can back up the results what works on one engine isnt neccisarily going to be what another engine with the same parts needs its sorta like all these shops in so cal that will charge u for a street tune because they know whats best (cam gears etc) that shit is rediculous because without a dyno u might not be making the power where u want to
     
  15. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    and you dont have the wideband access..

    shit i could have pulled a few extra ponies out of my setup if i wanted to, but i decided to tune on the safe side and near 12.7:1 a/f at 8200 rpm
     
  16. HardLowrdRanger

    HardLowrdRanger Member

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    You guys do have very valid arguments... And yes, each motor is different... I do agree that proper dyno tuning should be done IF possible... and it can be done without buying expensive systems if you know what you're doing or want to learn (check out pgmfi.org for info on diy tuning) but in all honesty, quite a few people don't have the money for Hondata and Tuning and/or Hondata's ROMeditor (which is HORRIBLY overpriced) and a wideband if they want to do it themselves... That's the whole reason I got into this in the first place. Trying to help out friends that couldn't afford Hondata, ZDyne, and the rest of the overpriced kits to help you tune...

    I do dyno tune the local cars (funny thing is people also drive out to AZ from cali to be tuned and the whole trip and tune ends up costing less than a base hondata system) that want it done via wideband and datalogging that I wrote myself... I'm no amateur at this and I've had quite a bit of experience... Just like people who have been building engines for a long time can tell you what compression to run to be able to boost 20psi on 104 octane and what your dynamic compression ratio will be at under 20psi of boost, I can tell you what timing and fuel you need for your particular setup or at least come damn close to correct... =P I also use math calculations to help me out... Everything can be explained in a mathematical equation...

    You guys can say this method doesn't work and I'm full of it but I get results, I help people out where I can, and I'm not full of shit like most of these other "tuners"... I'm not just some kid who throws random chips into ECUs and calls it a day... I actually know what I'm doing and that is what counts... =)

    James
     
  17. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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  18. BON_DATA

    BON_DATA Junior Member

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    And I can vouch for James who is definitely a gifted and capable ECU tuner. I work with him in an almost daily basis, and he can definitely produce some very effective custom programs without any expensive dyno or wideband tuning. He CAN and WILL produce a program that will work even with just information based on what the motor has. This is a sign of experience and sheer tuning talent.
     
  19. civicmad

    civicmad New Member

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    more bhp

    Hi im new to the honda scene iv just brought a 1996 hond civic coupe 1.5 i. I just want to now what can i do to the engine. To get more bhp im buying a preulde 2 litre v tech next mounth engine for my car . I just want to do something incase the deal falls though thnks .;)
     
  20. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Dude, check the dates on shit before you post, this conversation is from five years ago! :slap:

    And if you're swapping your motor to an H22 next month, then don't do anything to your D15, that's just money wasted...
     
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