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New rebuild burning oil.

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by 916em1, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. 916em1

    916em1 New Member

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    Finally finished my rebuild. Link>> http://hondaswap.com/engine-building/b18c1-rebuild-525194/
    However now it blows white/blue smoke when I floor it and feels weak. If i pull the plugs and shine into the cylinders i could see oil on top of the pistons. My buddy did the hone for me but then left me to rebuild the motor myself (my first rebuild). Any thoughts on whats wrong with it. Thanks
     
  2. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    What did you gap the rings to?
     
  3. 916em1

    916em1 New Member

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    Thanks for replying, I think you may have just found my problem lol. My buddy installed the rings but didn't say anything about gaping them so he probably didn't do it. How exactly do you gap rings??
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Read the specs from the manufacturer, use spring compressor to lay them into the bore without pistons, measure gap, file, repeat. Make sure they're oriented correctly on your pistons too.
     
  5. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    :withstupid: the gaps are offset in a way that doesnt allow oil to pass through the gaps in the rings. Sucks you have to pull the engine out
     
  6. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    [​IMG]


    You'd better start crossing your fingers and hope that a ring didn't expand and break, and either tear up a piston ring land or a cylinder wall...



    Also, make sure you get a ring filer, and don't file them all wonkey-eyed, otherwise you won't be any better off than you already are.
     
  7. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Clarification.

    The rings should be "Gapped" meaning to place them into the cylinder bore, square them up (I use a piston) and measure the end gap distance with a feeler gauge.

    Then, when installing them on the pistons the ring end gaps must be properly "Indexed" so they do not align with one another.

    How to do this can be found in any Haynes, Chilton or other service manual.

    Since you were not aware of this, get a book and read it when you do the work.

    The shop where I had the work done on mine charges ~$300 for assembly give or take. If you have the money, that would be a good idea. You're building a a high performance engine with close tolerances - a stock build would be a full up first project. You're way past that. Just want you to have a success story here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  8. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    1. BUY A FUCKING MANUAL. Spend the $30 or whatever. You can get a one-car subscription to AllData for fairly cheap, too. You've already proven that this isn't something you can DIY. Swallow your pride and do it the right way, or take it to someone who will - don't waste any more money, and don't let some dumbass friend of yours fuck anything else up further.

    2. Be sure and check the ring gap at the bottom, middle, and about a half inch from the top of the cylinder. Additionally, measure to where the ring lands will be at the top of the stroke and double and triple check the ring gap at that spot.

    3. If you think I'm being a dick, read some of my other posts.
     
  9. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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  10. 916em1

    916em1 New Member

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    to civicious,
    Im not trying to be cheap or cocky!
    Thanks for your info its actually alot of help.
    My friend isn't some dumbass, he knows his shit and has alot of builds under his belt. However i dont agree with some of his methods that is why i also come here for help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  11. 78civic

    78civic Junior Member

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    It also depends on how the piston was 'pounded' into the bore.
    I've seen oil separators bend and upper rings snapped because of the way the piston is hit forcing the assy into the bore.
    How did he hone it? "dingle ball" tool or adjustable one?

    if the ring lands weren't inspected prior to installing the rings could bind one breaking it also.
    If the rings were installed upside down could effect the build.
    A burr on the edge of a ring gap could score the wall and then it's a burnish or rebore/hone of that cyl.
    One should take a light jewelers file to knock off the edge 'inward' to the center of the bore. And then recheck the end gap.
    Were the bores slathered in oil and rings saturated (dripping all over)before the pistons were pressed/pounded in?

    And if the bore was honed for cast, and you used 'molly' rings doesn't leave the right finish and it will take lots longer for the rings to 'bed in' and seal.

    Most applications just require a cast 'plateau' hone to a .0005-.001 piston to bore clearance for most all street.

    E
     
  12. 78civic

    78civic Junior Member

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    Forgot.
    Blue= oil
    White=coolant/water
    Black=unburnt fuel

    I just looked at your thread and the last pics clearly show a 'ledge' at the top of your bores. You probably should've had it bored with NEW over sized pistons/rings.
    Did the machine shop re-hone your block again or your friend?
    Each time you hone, it takes out slightly more from the bore. (depending on grit of stone and how long one leaves it spinning away in there)

    E
     
  13. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Smoking black is ok, because sometimes that black smoke turns into a FIREBALL which = WIN. :D
     
  14. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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  15. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Ok, since we're now going there:
    Blue = Oil / Tires (sometimes good when from tires)
    White = Coolant / Water
    Black = Unburnt Fuel (also sometimes good when purposely running a little fat)
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  16. 916em1

    916em1 New Member

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    Sorry i fell off been kinda busy, so i finally got around to stripping my block. The ring end gap is way out of spec and seems to vary at different parts of the cylinder. Im taking The bare block to the machine shop monday hopefully to have it checked. To me its beginning To look like i will need to bore out to 81.5mm and get over size internals. So i dont have anymore problems, what needs to be done and replaced? Thanks Again For all the help.
     
  17. 916em1

    916em1 New Member

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    UPDATE: Well I finally drop my block of at the machine shop, they said the cylinders are oval and about a thousandths to big :( So I guess im gonna be boring it out to 81.5mm. My questions is will it still be safe for boost, because after dumping this much money into it N\A would just feel like a waste to me. I'm not planning on going pass 300whp thats even if I go that high. But because i need to by new pistons again I might as well go with some that can handle boost. Also which would be best without costing me another other arm and leg.
    Thanks
     
  18. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    CP makes decent turbo pistons. But, for any daily driver...expansion of the piston has to be put into context, cold weather starts, compression ratio, TuNe, and lots of other turbo things I'm not educated enough on.

    I like Supertech pistons for N/A daily drivers. low expansion similar to OEM. 11.5:1 with a mild cam could get you around 200whp tuned.
     
  19. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    If building it to run, it may be worth the $ to have the machine shop build at least the short block for you, perhaps even do the long block. Just sayin. Where I had the work done on my last build, they charge $300 for a turn key assembly on a 1.6L Honda engine.
     
  20. Somalia757

    Somalia757 SOMALIA

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    Yes that's a brilliant idea. Unless you have the money and time to screw up a few engine before you get it right.
    Always have people who are smarter than you on your team. Its about working together effectively to achieve your purpose. Best of luck my friends.
     
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