1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Poor Man's Type R ?'s

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by B-SERIES_BOY, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. B-SERIES_BOY

    B-SERIES_BOY Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    new jersey
    I am going to be putting a b16 head on a gsr block and have a few questions. I need to use a gsr timing belt because the gsr is physically taller, right? As for head gasket I have read that the b16 and b18c's are the same, not sure though?? And, lastly will the stock gsr ecu (P72, I believe) work correctly with the b16 head/manifold combo. I know the stock gsr has the buterflies and the b16 does not. Again, just trying to make sure i don't overlook anything. Thanks...
  2. brc80

    brc80 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Yes you need to use the gsr timming belt, use a b16 ecu of your same obd.
  3. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    :/
    what made you decide to go the poor man's type r over an ls/vtec?
  4. Tonyd0821

    Tonyd0821 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    oooh here is a dumbass question....


    what hp/tq gains would you expect to yeild from putting a b16 head onto a gsr block?

    and how do the two heads compare? better flow for the b16?

    is it even worth it?
  5. jamesA

    jamesA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    15,506
    Media:
    4
    Likes Received:
    470
    Location:
    wrong place, wrong time
    The ITR uses a B16 head so putting a b16 head on a GSR would probably net you ITR hp levels.
  6. Tonyd0821

    Tonyd0821 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    0

    this application is good for only all motor? or does it work well with fi ?
  7. Tonyd0821

    Tonyd0821 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    and while im at it....

    what does a gsr head on a b16 block yield?
  8. jamesA

    jamesA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    15,506
    Media:
    4
    Likes Received:
    470
    Location:
    wrong place, wrong time
    haha well from here on out i'm just gonna let other people answer...cause I have those same questions :)
  9. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    :/
    ls/vtec would probably make more power, but the PMR will probably be cheaper and more reliable.
  10. Import Builders

    Import Builders Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LA, California
    If you take a GSR motor, and put a B16A head on it, your going to lose power.

    Your lowering compression, and your downgrading your cams and intake manifold.

    GSR combustion chamber works better, its smaller with quench. It matters.

    Jeff
  11. Sergey P.A.

    Sergey P.A. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    253 Tacoma
    after all this debates about b16 and c1 heads, a b16 head on a c1 block will give you less compresion because the head domes are higher, b 16 will give you more high end, and a c1 more mid range, that's it,

    and also they use a b16 head cast in the type r the internals are different and the head of a Type R is manually ported, so I don't know, you will have to go with b16 or itr pistons, try it and then don't forget to post the Dyno sheet, me personally I wont take off the Gsr head in order to have a "better flowing" head, I would just port and polish it, and chenge the head internals..........but try it,
  12. H22AdelSol

    H22AdelSol Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    san diego, california
    man there is no such thing as poor in racing.
  13. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    :/
    :werd:

    that's for damn sure.
  14. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,195
    Media:
    607
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    MD

    :no:

    the ITR has much larger piston domes then GSR (higher compression) and a more agressive valvetrain and cam setup, along with a mildly ported head.

    the b16 have larger combustion chambers, but it has much larger piston domes then the GSR. USDM piston domes are like -.6cc or something like that, while the b16 has like 6cc. putting a b16 head on the c1 block will give you like 9.8 compression. not that great for power, not all motor anyway. IB- good point on the cams, that slipped my mind. basically if you are gonna do this, at least get some higher compression pistons to make it worth while. and if you want to be putting down anywhere near to type r numbers, you should get type r cams and valvetrain along with type r pistons.
  15. Sergey P.A.

    Sergey P.A. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    253 Tacoma
  16. B-SERIES_BOY

    B-SERIES_BOY Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    new jersey
    Hey, thanks for the replies...Just so you guys know, I'm not chosing the b16 head over the gsr for performance reasons. My timing belt broke on my gsr and I don't have the cash to build the gsr head the way I want right now. I know a friend getting out of the honda scene and he had a PnP b16 head/manifold with itr cams, valvetrain and s2 cam gears for a really good deal. So I couldn't pass it up. I just want to get my car back on the road and I'll probably end up building the gsr head as the cash flows.

    So to reiterate, I need the gsr timing belt. But what about the head gasket? I remember reading that the b16 and b18c's are the same but want to make sure. As for the ecu do I NEED to use a b16 or can I get away with the gsr?
  17. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    :/
    get the b18c1 head gasket.
  18. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    28,426
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    What Jeff said is correct- you'll lose performance with the B16 head, but not really that much.

    The B16 and B18C head gaskets should be the same. You can probably get away with using your P72 ECU, but I would try to source a B16 ECU if possible. You might be able to mate your GSR intake manifold up to the B16 head and just go like that... but I don't think it bolts straight on.
  19. turbo4dr

    turbo4dr Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    the combo does work very well if you add type r pistons and at least gsr or type r cams. My friends si has a gsr bottom end with type r pistons and gsr cams and he blows the doors of of my other friends gsr hatch
  20. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Orlando, FL

    does not bolt up without cutting and welding.

Share This Page