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red line on a b18 block with b16a head.

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by electric95122, Dec 10, 2006.

  1. electric95122

    electric95122 Eg_boy_B16a

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    red line on a b18a1 block with b16a head.

    how much power can the block hold with out blowing up??? with a b16 head. i know the head red line's at 8200,but can the block get up there?? i know if i build the block it can handle it but got no money for that...(or can i use my b16 internals????)(pistons?? rods????)
     
  2. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    you can use the b16 pistons and up your compression ratio to about 12:1. The rods from the b16 should not be reused (they can be, but i wouldnt recommend it unless you really wanna lower the compression ratio).

    as far as rev capacity, i wouldnt take it past 8,300. If you wanna upgrade the bottom end, switch rod bolts for some arp rod bolts and the bottom end should be fine. Most of the problems that come with the LS/Vtec come from incorrect head installation, over advanced timing, and/or lack of tuning.

    If you take your time and check everything over, i dont see why you would have a problem running your LS/Vtec that high.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
  3. electric95122

    electric95122 Eg_boy_B16a

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    if i use the stock b16 rods?? the compression is lower right?? what if i plan on going turbo??or Nos?? wouldn't that be better??i was planing ls/vtec-turbo.still wanna go all motor, oh how much do the arp rod bolts go for??? would it matter if the b18a1 block had 120k miles???since im changing all the internals? besides the crankshaft.. tight on money..
     
  4. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    just keep the ls pistons and youll be fine for an ls turbo.
     
  5. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Tight on money is not a good condition for building a turbo-charged LS\VTEC engine. These really need to be assembled in machine shops.

    Granted, people do this all day everyday in their garages and post about how they rev to 9K on OE everything, but this combinations tend to break more often than not when it's not done properly, in a shop, by someone who knows assembly and machine work.
     
  6. formby

    formby learning in progress

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    gsr with ls crank and rods FTW
    [bend/remove the oilsquirters / knife edge crank to clear them]


    if you are building an lsv. use this
    Golden Eagle Mfg. Online Shopping - Product Listing
    and arp robbolts and head studs no need to machine.

    i would send the short block for a good cleaning, resurfacing and final assembly . if you know how to properly rebuild the short block do it, if not let them do it.

    i dont like to assemble my short blocks but i have no problem installing the head at home.

    the main concern with an lsv is R/S ratio.
    you can rev it to 9k sometimes [if it makes power there] the ls R/S ratio will make the cylinder walls oval over time.

    build this then buy a block and save around $900 to sleeve the you dont have to worry about it.

    m2c
     
  7. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    If the head or deck surfaces lose any metal before assembly, the dowel pins will need to be ground to compensate for adequate head gasket sealing. That's considered machining, as is the milling of the block deck or head. These aren't always necessary, it's more about the castings you start with, and how much "free" compression you want from doing it (if your internals can't make it exactly where you want it. This also goes for stuff like, piston\valve clearance, etc..)

    I'm not entirely sure any crank work besides balancing\integrity type work really needs to be done. If you aren't shooting for over 300WHP, the OE piece will be fine if it's worked over prior to assembly.

    Revs have a lot to do with a lot. There's harmonics, individual component\fastener capabilities, tuning.. it's not just something you can look at charts for and go, "hey! my stock b16a revs to 8,200rpms, why wouldn't it with a b18a bottom?"

    One lesson that's proved itself endlessly is that ARP is here to stay. Rod bolts, head studs, you know the drill. I DARE say these SHOULD be considered necessary on even the most OE equivalent LSVTEC in history.

    Of course, use a good head gasket, recommend Cometic, match it to the BLOCK (mostly we match stuff to the head when you are adding VTEC. An oil passage is the concern for this specific area, the lack of one on the B18\B20 makes it paramount to match the gasket to the block to prevent any leaking issues from a lack of gasket material in that location. this is why we plumb oil to the head)

    Get yourself an oil sandwhich plate (cooler if you can while your at it, but lets focus on the sandwhich plate for now) so you can plumb an oil line to the head. The ENDYN "kit" is heavily recommended. I'd buy an oil pressure gauge at the same time and install it WITH this swap. It will work famously with the sandwhich plate. This is one of the MOST USEFUL GAUGES YOU CAN OWN (whereas, let's say, an A\F gauge is a COMPLETE waste of money, even if you drove around with a wideband 02 hooked up)

    Naturally, the belt driven items need attention. Use the ITR\GSR water pump, ITR Oil pump (ENDYN can modify these for better performance), do NOT use a B16A timing belt (use an OE Honda belt for best results), even if that's your head, (GSR\ITR only), I'd also suggest some adj. cam gears (preferably Crower\ENDYN), have your crank pulley neutral balanced, or replace it with a Fluidampr, oy, my brain hurts, that's all for now!
     
  8. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Oh yeeah, you still don't know about your induction. Pick one, turbo, NA, NOS, super, whatever, just pick one and stick to it. The last thing you want to do is build on a budget for something that will "work" for NA, have low enough compression so you can turbo it one day, and then another day go back to NA. You rings will undoubtedly try their hardest to let you know exactly how that makes them feel. With induction, just pick what you want at the end of the day, and build for that, it's the most simple route to go, and most effective in the end.

    IMO, the static compression with an LS block+B16 pistons would be decent enough for you to get 8-12psi FINE tuned and reliable. Do you really want more boost than that on the street? There's more ways to be "fast" than just adding PSI (like HPDE, a suspension, the right gearing and a properly torqued to spec nut-behind-the-wheel).

    8-12psi, well tuned will serve you well. You could even have a decent service life and gas mileage for your setup, lower cost, great power. Just post the block, balance the bottom end, get a crank girdle and tune Tune TUNE! (OBD1 Hondata S300\Crome Pro\Autronic SM4 ALL FTW)

    I'd also recommend the 2.5Bar MAP from Motorola, GM 3Bar is old news.

    And as far as revs go, beyond 10K is where the $$$ signs will start catching up to you. With engine health\safety in mind, it's better to be CAPABLE than to DO... if you can spin it to 10K SAFELY, but don't make power beyond 9,200 rpms, GREAT! That means you have an OK ceiling in case you over rev for whatever reason someday, and you won't have to worry so much about popping it. We don't always build for revs to GO THERE, a lot of the time, it's about being safe if that's where you happen to find yourself in an instance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
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