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Stupid and impractical or genius idea?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by Accordian, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    I have searched around and can't seem to find any information on the oil in turbo's. When turbo charging a Honda or any non-factory charged car, you must run oil lines from the engine to the turbo and from the turbo to the pan correct? This is to help the bearings in the turbo stay cool and lubricated to ensure long lasting fun. A common problem I have heard of is the oil within the engine and turbo get very hot especially because they share the same lubrication creating a crock pot full of hot oil in the turbo upon engine shutdown. This creates heat wear and sludge la la la, bad.
    SO MY IDEA: (Tell me if I am just missing something here or it is a cool idea MAYBE IT'S BEEN DONE I don't know) Run a separate and electric (not so reliable) or a separate crank/accessory driven oil pump. The pump would be small so it wouldn't draw much power. The lines, possibly an oil filter,and possibly a hard, in-line cooler would all house the oil for ONLY the turbo. I was thinking this would reduce the temperature of the turbo, bearings and oil at all times especially upon shutdown. If it were electric it could be run a minute or two on a timer after engine shutdown to prevent cooking AND you could run an oil that is more specific to the turbo itself rather than the turbo using the oil your engine is running (cleaner too).
    On turbos with water cooling capabilities, you could use the same separate pump and lubrication concept except have two separate housings and turbines on the pump and also have separate lines for each. Using coolant/water mix and again a hard in-line cooler to circulate coolant throughout the turbo.
     
  2. itsbudda

    itsbudda Banned

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    Its a good idea, but I personally think it's more practical just to cool down the engine before turning it off, so the turbo isn't spinning at the time of shutdown
     
  3. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    Well I agree but just the fact that the oil in the turbo would never reach temperatures that the engine oil does, ya know? Obviously letting the turbo idle down and the engine run before shutdown works to prevent serious cooking.
     
  4. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    thats what oil coolers are for
     
  5. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    Oil cooler

    Oil cooler as in a cooler for the oil within the entire oil system? (Motor and Turbo) I think thats besides the point.

    • Cleaner oil within the turbo
    • Cooler oil within the turbo
    • Ability to run different oil viscosities in turbo
    • Cooler coolant circulating through the turbo
    • Higher flow due to dedicated pump
     
  6. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    yea,,but give it a go it could be great
     
  7. itsbudda

    itsbudda Banned

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    Imo, the benefits don't outweigh the logistical nightmare involved in devising such a system along with the upkeep of said system. But i may be wrong. It may make the turbo last longer. I just say if you do it, definitely install an oil pressure guage dedicated to the turbo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  8. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    Another thought

    nasteboyii on Honda-Tech had a good response. The separate pump and oil cooling system would probably use only between 1 and 3 quarts and with that little oil and an extremely hot turbo. The oil would heat rapidly, break down quickly and be more difficult to keep cool. I still want to mess around with it someday, at least the water cooling.
     
  9. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    Ya it seems silly but It wouldn't consist of all that much. The fabrication and installation would be pretty straightforward. An electric pump with two separate chambers, filters, and reservoirs. 4 braided stainless lines, two metal tube style oil/water coolers and an oil pressure gauge and turbo temp gauge would complete it nicely. for like $50-$250 it would be cool to try. You could have a tri-pod gauge pillar dedicated to turbo: Boost, Oil and/or Coolant Pressure, and a Turbo Core Temperature Gauge... Bad A** imo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  10. itsbudda

    itsbudda Banned

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    I never thought of that. But it makes sense. I imagine the same principle would apply for independent cooling as well. Why not install a small oil cooler and route it so it sends cool oil directly into the turbo?
     
  11. itsbudda

    itsbudda Banned

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    Yeah it would be cool. It's definitely worth a thought. I'd try it on a car that's not driven daily though.
     
  12. Accordian

    Accordian Junior Member

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    You could also run a lighter weight synthetic that would pump easier, cool better but still provide enough lubrication for turbo shaft bearings. Both coolant to reduce temperature and oil to lubricate, clean and prevent cooking could be circulated via a temperature dependent timer. The electric pump could continue running after the ignition is turned off for say 30 seconds if the turbo core temp sensor reads normal or 1 min 30 if it's really hot. SO if it works out:
    No more idling before shutdown and a more efficient, longer lasting turbo due to cleaner and cooler operating conditions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  13. the.original.kermit

    the.original.kermit I know everything

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    Good thought, but there is a little flaw to it. You are trying to keep from overheating the motor oil so that you have a longer lasting turbo, but you are going about it all the wrong way imo. Although a turbo gets really hot, the cooling system of the turbo should keep the temperatures manageable (imo if you are going to go through this much work, you should already be running a water cooled turbo). The problem is when you are doing spirited driving, and the exhaust housing of the turbo reaches VERY high temperatures, and then you shut the car down. Well there is no longer coolant or oil flow through the turbo, so the heat from the exhaust housing makes it's way into the center housing. This burns the oil/leaves deposits, etc. in the turbo bearings.

    Now your idea may help provide cooler oil and coolant to the turbo, but the same benifits could be had with installing and in-line cooler just before the turbo for coolant or oil, or running right off of the radiator for your coolant.

    If you are trying to address the issue of "cooldown" time of the turbo, you are better off running a turbo timer or an electric water pump.
     
  14. SixAfterFour

    SixAfterFour New Member

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    I was also thinking about this.
    Yes the oil would heat up quickly, the only way to stop that is to use more oil.
    Think of it like boiling a pot of water, whats going to boil faster, the pot full of water or the pop only half way full.
    So maybe use a full radiator from say an mr2 and just fill it full of oil.
     
  15. the.original.kermit

    the.original.kermit I know everything

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    or an oil cooler
     
  16. awptickes

    awptickes unimpressed by you VIP

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    Electric oil pumps are used in lots of dedicated track (not strip, track) cars because they offer the ability to lubricate the engine before cranking. This increases engine longevity, I assume this would apply to a turbo as well.

    You could run the oil pump after shutdown, but why? Just buy a water cooled turbo, if turbo longevity is what you're after. Better yet, get a water cooled turbo, and an electric oil pump.
     
  17. anonymoususer

    anonymoususer Banned

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    just run a water cooled center cartridge and be done with it. adding pumps and seperate cooling reseviors are just making things way more complex than they need to be. think about what would happen if the pump failed while you were driving?
    an external oil cooler on ANY engine is a good idea, can be made fairly cheap <$100 and work very well. plus keep this in mind- what about all the extra weight you'll be adding to the car>?
    just let the car idle for a minute before you shut it down. simple easy , works every time and next to free.
     
  18. the.original.kermit

    the.original.kermit I know everything

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    i always thought that drag cars ran them too...
     
  19. awptickes

    awptickes unimpressed by you VIP

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    I dunno. I never got into drag cars. I always figured it was a waste of a good driver. heh.
     
  20. the.original.kermit

    the.original.kermit I know everything

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    tru dat
     
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