Sway bars...

[92civicb18b1]

I figured I ask here also...

Anyway, I can get a new set of Hotchkis sway bars for under 400 bucks for the A4.

35mm front and 22 mm rear. Only problem is people have had issues with the rear subframe cracking with the 22mm bar.

It would actually cost a little more for a 19mm and 37 bar combo but the added security in not cracking the rear subframe might be worth it.

Currently the car has a 27mm front bar and 16mm rear bar and understeers a bit, it's pretty nuetral handling and really depends how I take a turn. If I throw the car into a turn I can get some oversteer time and let off the throttle to straighten it up but I really have to throw it into the corner which slows me down too much. If I just try to take the turn it will normally understeer more then I want it to.

This isn't my greatest topic and I don't have all the knowledge I could use so my question is....

If I bought JUST a 19mm rear bar and kept the 27mm front bar would it hurt handling performance? Or increase it?

I'd perfer a little more oversteer but obviously don't want too much. Hotchkis claims a ~150% rate increase in the rear with the 22mm bar.

 

[vtecsir1]

Quoted post[/post]]
I figured I ask here also...

Anyway, I can get a new set of Hotchkis sway bars for under 400 bucks for the A4.

35mm front and 22 mm rear. Only problem is people have had issues with the rear subframe cracking with the 22mm bar.

It would actually cost a little more for a 19mm and 37 bar combo but the added security in not cracking the rear subframe might be worth it.

Currently the car has a 27mm front bar and 16mm rear bar and understeers a bit, it's pretty nuetral handling and really depends how I take a turn. If I throw the car into a turn I can get some oversteer time and let off the throttle to straighten it up but I really have to throw it into the corner which slows me down too much. If I just try to take the turn it will normally understeer more then I want it to.

This isn't my greatest topic and I don't have all the knowledge I could use so my question is....

If I bought JUST a 19mm rear bar and kept the 27mm front bar would it hurt handling performance? Or increase it?

I'd perfer a little more oversteer but obviously don't want too much. Hotchkis claims a ~150% rate increase in the rear with the 22mm bar.

What did the S4 come with? Is there any way you could get some stock S4 parts? I think if you just replaced the rear bar like you said it would be fine and add more oversteer but with awd cars I really dont know.

 

[92civicb18b1]

S4's actually have smaller rear bars.

RS4's and S4's have the same roll bars, the front iis 29mm and the rear is 15mm. Part numbers are the same ;-)

^ From an Audi forum

Apparently people with s4's and rs4's upgrade them just as quickly as someone with an A4 would and have the same type of understeer problem.

Maybe I was reading something wrong and the A4's actually have 15mm rear bars also. I should measure it.

 

[B16]

Upgrade the rear only if you want to eliminate that understeer issue. If you upgrade the front to a heavier bar it will just make the problem remain or get worse. And S4's understeer horribly. I would not reproduce that stock setup on your A4.

 

[92civicb18b1]

[Not with a 19 or 22 mm rear sway bar. Audi put the same size bars on the A4 as well, 27mm front and 15mm rear, later DOWNGRADING to a 14mm rear bar

For >200 bucks for the 19mm rear bar I can make my a4 oversteer a lot by throwing it into the turn or VERY nuetral and precise by taking it normally.

And obviously you do not know how to setup suspension. Enjoy your even more understeering pig. TIA!

Upgrade the rear only if you want to eliminate that understeer issue. If you upgrade the front to a heavier bar it will just make the problem remain or get worse. And S4's understeer horribly. I would not reproduce that stock setup on your A4.

Not to criticize your expertise in suspension. But that is very contradicting.


The A4 and S4 use the same front and rear bars, so technically they are the same, the S4 just utilizes a better/stiffer suspension but is even heavier IIRC.

I never was huge on suspension but what you are saying here makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[B16]

Quoted post[/post]]

[Not with a 19 or 22 mm rear sway bar. Audi put the same size bars on the A4 as well, 27mm front and 15mm rear, later DOWNGRADING to a 14mm rear bar

For >200 bucks for the 19mm rear bar I can make my a4 oversteer a lot by throwing it into the turn or VERY nuetral and precise by taking it normally.

And obviously you do not know how to setup suspension. Enjoy your even more understeering pig. TIA!

Upgrade the rear only if you want to eliminate that understeer issue. If you upgrade the front to a heavier bar it will just make the problem remain or get worse. And S4's understeer horribly. I would not reproduce that stock setup on your A4.

Not to criticize your expertise in suspension. But that is very contradicting.


The A4 and S4 use the same front and rear bars, so technically they are the same, the S4 just utilizes a better/stiffer suspension but is even heavier IIRC.

I never was huge on suspension but what you are saying here makes a lot more sense to me.

My bad, I assumed the S4 would have stiffer sway bits. But trust me. If you want to eliminate understeer (which audi's do naturally because of how far the engine sits past the front axle) then get a larger rear bar leaving the front bar stock.

EDIT:
I just realized it may not be so bad on the A4 as opposed to the S4 because you have an inline 4 and not an as heavy V6. Do the motors sit longitudly or transversly on audi's?

 

[92civicb18b1]

I have a v6 and it's longitudally mounted as well as all the Audi a4/a6/a8/s4/s6/rs4 and rs6 AWD motors.

The curb weight on 1997 1.8t Quattros is 3130 lbs.

The curb wieght on the 1997 2.8 12V V6 Quattro is 3228 lbs.

The curb weight on the 2000 S4 2.7TT Quattro is 3593 lbs.


Although my car obviously lacks in some much needed power and some handing. You're EVO comes in at about 3263 lbs. But is defenitly more performance oriented. The a4 weight distribution is around 61/39

 

[B16]

I see, thats not so bad your 61/39. 60/40 is ideal for FWD and AWD setups. I wonder why the S4 is so much heavier? I bet most of its weight is at the nose.

Go and upgrade your rear sway bar first and see how you like it. Do you plan on upgrading any other suspension pieces?

 

[92civicb18b1]

Eventually yes.

When I have some money comming in again I'll probably buy a full coilover setup. Or save a bit more, sell it and buy a 1.8T for obvious reasons or possibly a 30V.

A 30V with an SC kit produces around 300 hp. And with a little bit of suspension work could probably keep up with EVO's...maybe.

**S4's are heavier because they have other optional crap....leather, GPS, sunroof, heavier suspension IIRC, the 6 speed adds some weight as well, it has added whatever the hell that crap is called to reduce outside noise, etc.

I also assume it has such heavy understeer due to the HUGE front bar they put on it.