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To swap or not to swap

Discussion in 'Accord' started by atyoung, May 19, 2009.

  1. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    So here's the deal, 97 accord ex has a f22b1. I have been reading and reading and talking to people, and would like some solid opinions as far as if or not to go the h22 swap route rather than harden the internals of the f22 and boost it. The other deal is either way I was planning on boosting it, but it would seem to me cost wise by the time I got the h22 sleeved and properly hardened for the turbo I'd be out allot more money and shop time (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

    The second part of my question goes specifically to the f22, what are the top enders on this engine out there. Around here people mostly run the h22s, and seem to feign ignorance to the f22 thinking SHOC is jokeish.
     
  2. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    Yes I'm fully aware accords are heavy as hell. ;)
     
  3. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Welcome to HondaSwap!

    Here's a quick easy generalized breakdown..

    Power: H22 turbo > F22 turbo >>>> H22 swap > F22 stock
    Cost: H22 turbo >> H22 swap >> F22 turbo > F22 stock

    The F22 with stock internals on boost will typically cost the same (if parts are chosen correctly) as just the H22 swap, but be able to put out a LOT more power. If the Accord could be gutted for weight savings, my choice would be a crazy all motor H22 build pushing close to 300whp, but that takes a LOT of money. For stock Accord weights, turbo is the way to go.
     
  4. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    Thats about what most of my research has lead me to believe. What I'm not finding is some hard data as to where my ceiling would be (in theory) building up the f22. Obviously milage may vary engine to engine, but I was hoping to stumble across some people who have built up their f22 to see what kinda numbers they are getting.

    I guess I'm just not sure if its worth the time/money to build it up if I'm going to end up wanting to swap it later. This f22 would I think require a rebuild anyway, beings that I'm going to be in there I might as well harden the internals, besides I can push it harder then. ;)
     
  5. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    What's your budget? What are your power goals?
     
  6. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    I'm looking to get the best power I can out of the f22 honestly, people around here don't believe the f22 is worth running on something as heavy as and accord. So I'm leaning toward the "check out my crazy shoc turbo setup" thing. I think 6 to 8k sounds reasonable to get the f22 up to snuff, at least for starters.

    But I figure getting a h22 in and ready to handle boost plus the turbo itself at that point will probably run me at least that, vs power gains I could get out of the f22 for that kinda money. I've read about people getting 300whp out of f22 turbos, but I dunno that thats realistic, I have yet to see a dyno chart that proves that to be honest.

    I thought maybe there might be some people here who have invested in the f22 to help me make up my mind.

    I know the h22 setup is going to cost allot more however. I know the h22 is going to need sleeves pistons, cams, head work, probably bearings, rods, this list goes on and on before I can even think about turbo.

    F22's can be boosted stock, assuming your internals are in good order. But I was looking at doing some head work, pistons, cam, 2.5 catless exhaust that kinda thing (admittedly new mani seems hard to find for this kinda setup). Either way s300 is going in for tuning. Much of the cost is similar, except I already have the f22 so theres 2000k minimum and the f22 doesn't NEED sleeves there's another 1500 most likely, that extra 3.5k could go to drudging more out of the f22.
     
  7. DESPAIN

    DESPAIN yep....mmhhm.......yep...

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    Either way.... If you have 6-8k to spend go h22. You can boost with 10psi on a stock h22 as long as its tuned right. Sleeves you can do with out unless you are going all out. But 300hp is reachable with out sleeves. I have an h22 thats boosted with forged pistons but it is not sleeved. You also might want to check into a h23 or f22/h22 frankinstien. Do some research really depends on hp goal and budgett
     
  8. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    The frankenstien scares me a little to be honest, it sounds like somethings thats just begging to blow up eventually. ;) I know you CAN boost H22s without sleeves, but I mean if I was going to bother with the H22 swap I was thinking why not just sleeve it while its out. I was thinking for a nice H22 set up I'd be looking at least 12 large. I get what your saying though I'll dig a little deeper into what kinda numbers I can get for a fixed budget out of a H22.
     
  9. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    Boost the snot out of the F22, and buy an H22 and build it up. When the F22 eats shit, swap in the H22 and swap over all the turbo bits.

    Why the hell not?
     
  10. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Or build the snot out of another F22. It'll be much cheaper.

    You CAN easily get 300whp out of a stock block F22 with boost. Hell, people get 230-250whp regularly out of boosted stock block D16 setups- what's another 20% power when you have more than 40% extra displacement to work with?
     
  11. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    I was thinking just that, in fact it would seem I can get my hands on another f22b1 retarded cheap, build it up and then swap it in.
     
  12. exracer

    exracer New Member

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    working with a f22a4 which route can i goe to get more power? junk yard bolt-ons? Not opposed to frankinstiening for a little extra power! Will be considering a turbo set up when i can afford it so for now ineed some advise as to were i can start!!
     
  13. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    I'm going to take a wild guess and say you need to roll you own thread for this, however the f22a4 can be boosted just like any f22. Depending on the conditon of your motor you can probably do 7 psi on a t3/t4 turbo kit assuming everything is in good repair. Really depends on your goals, and how much work you wanna put into it.
     
  14. Hondadude141

    Hondadude141 ¿pɐǝɥ ɹn ɥʇıʍ uıop nɥɔʇɐʍ

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    The f22 also has cast iron internals and the only major weakness is the small rods, but for 700ish bucks you can get a good set of crower rods and you're good to boost.
     
  15. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    ^^ Also you could pick up a nice stage 1 or stage 2 upgraded cam from bisimoto for some easy extra horse, allong with some exaust upgrades etc for some minor n/a gains (25-35 horse or so). They would be nice after boost too.
     
  16. Hondadude141

    Hondadude141 ¿pɐǝɥ ɹn ɥʇıʍ uıop nɥɔʇɐʍ

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    I'd start with a stage 1 cam unless you were planning on boosting in the next couple of weeks then I would just go with Bisi's 1.2 turbo regrind. Good stuff either way. That F block can withstand a decent amount of boost.
     
  17. atyoung

    atyoung New Member

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    ^^ true that, depending on what you're planning, stage 1 will do nice for a good n\a build. If you're planning to boost hit the stage 2.
     
  18. Hondadude141

    Hondadude141 ¿pɐǝɥ ɹn ɥʇıʍ uıop nɥɔʇɐʍ

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    Not necissarily stage "2" there is usually a cam stage called 1.2 or 1.5 that is meant for the turbo application, stage 2 has an aggressive lope that sill not always allow the best turbo tune, so look for the regrind/cam that says turbo set up
     
  19. Honda20000

    Honda20000 New Member

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    Doesn't anyone like building the V-6? (C-27 or J series) I would rather put in a V-6 myself.
     
  20. Hondadude141

    Hondadude141 ¿pɐǝɥ ɹn ɥʇıʍ uıop nɥɔʇɐʍ

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    Find me a decent valve train, pistons, rods and bearing, and sleeves and a turbo manifold, and ill consider it.
     
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