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we've all heard this question..

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by h22bubbleback, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. h22bubbleback

    h22bubbleback Senior Member

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    for philosophy "take home" midterm thats due in about 5 hrs, the question is:

    If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one about, does it make a noise?

    we have all heard the question, but the wut fuck is the answer?


    another question is:

    if you replace EVERY SINGLE PART of some car...is it still the same car?
     
  2. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    fuck philosophy

    i say break it down to science

    the tree is a living organism
    it exists

    sound is just a distortion of air by the vibrations that cause the sound

    the tree falls, causes vibration, makes a sound

    of course i would use better definition of sound and such


    another option
    a prof i had gave a test like this
    and after wards he told us the best answer he ever got was two words...

    who cares

    and he gave them an A

    wtf
     
  3. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    according to dmv, if you replaced every single part, then the car would no longer exist...

    vin plate = part... so you replace it with someting else and need to register it as a home made vehicle
     
  4. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    If a tree falls in a forest and it hits a mime, would he make a noise?

    If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, do the other trees make fun of it?


    If a tree falls in a forest and there was nobody there to see it, does it really fall?
     
  5. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    If a tree falls and nobody hears it, does the tree make a noise? Tricky one! Please consider this twist:

    A philosopher, strolling alone in a forest, hears a tree plunging noisily earthwards. Startled, he clutches his chest and dies before the falling tree had hit the ground. So...

    Question - did the falling tree stop making a noise the instant the unfortunate philosopher snuffed it?


    If the falling tree ceased making noise when the the philosopher died, then the energy of the sound waves rippling through the air at the moment of his death would have been nullified.

    This causes us a big headache! Energy cannot be created or destroyed. So our thought experiment leads to a paradox, -an indication that our assumptions are wrong. We must conclude that the tree continued to make noise after the philosopher died, even though there were no observers present. And if true for this falling tree, then why not for all falling trees?

    Thought Experiment of Death: One day, in the distant(?) future, you, dear reader, will die!

    Question - When you die you will stop observing the Universe. When this happens, will all falling trees, all philosophers, everybody and everything - the whole Universe - stop making a noise for ever? Will everything stop existing?

    If you were the unfortunate philosopher in the thought experiment above, then the falling tree will not only continue to exist, it will continue to make a noise too. As will the whole Universe. Only you will be silenced...
     
  6. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    I think it depends on how you perceive reality. If the external world precedes perception, then the tree falling down does make a sound regardless of whether or not someone is there to perceive it. But if reality is no more than just perceived info, then the tree didn't make a sound since no one was there to hear it.


    My first reaction to this is yes; of course it makes a sound. I quickly come to this conclusion due to the fact that if I am actually in the forest and see a tree fall down I also hear it make a sound. So using prior knowledge and experience I still think the tree will make noise even if I am not there to hear it. The important part here is that it is what I think and what I perceive. Another creature who doesn't have the capability of hearing or catching the particular wave sounds a tree makes when it falls might not believe that the tree does or does not make a sound. The question may even sound silly, I mean why would noise or sound depend on me? Just because I am not there doesn't mean sound will not be heard?
     
  7. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    The tree makes a potential sound, but the sound is not actualized untill someone hears it. Without the world, there are no perceptions, and without the ability to percieve, phenomenon are not part of "the world". We are at present not able to sense certain wavelengths of light, they exist as merely potentially perceivable. Supposing that one day we can sense ultraviolet light then this perception would be actualized.
     
  8. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    Well, that depends on if the same rules apply to auditory neuronal function as do for visual. If it is the case that, as has been argued with eyes, the fact that we can only hear things at certain frequencies indicates that those frequencies exist because we were evolutionary geared to hear those frequencies, then yes, it does make a sound. Regardless of whether we are there or not, there are frequencies that are created when the tree hits the ground. If on the other hand, we find that sound is a perception, like color, then no it does not make a sound. This also depends on how sound is defined. If it is defined as only something humans or other animals can hear, than no, the tree does not make a sound. If, however, we define sound as something outside of human or other animal perception, than yes, the sound occurs.



    lots of material and points of view here
    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro00/topic10.html
     
  9. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

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    What the hell are you doing?? Writing the paper for him?? :lol:
     
  10. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    The answer is, quite simply, yes.

    I fucking hate philosophy. 8 hours of circular debate, all to wind up in the same place you were when you started.
     
  11. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    trying to
    lol

    took me under 5 minutes on google with ctrlc and ctrlv

    do not copy and paste any of my posts, plagorjism = bad news
     
  12. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    yea i'm a man of the sciences and engineering.. i'm going to go with the "who gives a fuck" response
     
  13. h22bubbleback

    h22bubbleback Senior Member

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    after analyzing the situation:....

    THE ANSWER IS NO..IT DOES NOT MAKE NOISE...look up the word noise in the dictionary and you will see why. if the problem said sound it would be yes. Noise is percieved by humans, and sound is, well...sound

    reckedracing...im taking you info to the hizzy! :D thanks
     
  14. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    no, it doesn't make noise.

    it makes vibrations, which human/mamals/things with ears take the vibrations and make it into "noise"
     
  15. Havok

    Havok Senior Member

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    When you put it that way, Chris, it sounds like a typical Rebublican's day :p
     
  16. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    what dictionary?
    looking for it but haven;t found any definiton regarding perceived


    the auditory experience of sound that lacks musical quality

    sound of any kind (especially unintelligible or dissonant sound)

    hmmm
     
  17. integraslut78

    integraslut78 Stylus DJ Extraordinaire

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    You are just like Socrates. Nice answer did you take philosophy before?
     
  18. h22bubbleback

    h22bubbleback Senior Member

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    copy+paste :p
     
  19. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    ahem...


    The questoin 'If a tree falls in a forest, and there is noone about, does it make a sound?' is really quite easy to answer; however, you must take several things into consideration before you can answer said question. First, what sort of tree is in question? Different types of trees make different noises. For instance, oak trees are generally large and stout. Surely if an oak tree were to fall, it would make a sound regardless of the circumstances. In that same aspect, were a prune tree to fall, it would make nearly no sound at all, as prune trees are generally thin and wispy. A pine tree, on the other hand would make absolutely no sound whether it were gigantic and fully grown, or newly-planted and twiggish. This is because pine trees have pine cones, which generally do not posess the same qualities as tuna fish.

    Something else that must be taken into consideration is the environment that the tree is in. Say, for instance, the tree grows on the moon. Were a tree to fall on the moon, it would make no sound, because there is no oxygen on the moon, and the tree wouldn't grow there in the first place. Had the tree grown in the forest on the movie 'The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers', the tree would have groaned, gotten back up, and thrown something.




    :blink:
     
  20. smooth95

    smooth95 Senior Member

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