Floodgates = open

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IMO nothing about the way we have crafted our policies in the past 80 years comes within a million miles of the "spirit" of the constitution. Quite the opposite in fact.

That being said, I've given up on debating politics or suggesting better alternatives. There's no way to fix all the problems of this country without starting from scratch. I figure the best way to bring about that radical change is to accelerate our heading into self-destruction.

Again, I don't believe that we need to be so radical. The structure of the government is not unmanageable IMO.

We do need to be intelligent when allowing Senators to hold seats for 40years and abstain from voting, voting only "present", or voting only on issues that are self serving.

How do we act intelligently? We limit terms. We force bills to pass on their own merits. No corporate buy outs, no pork roll, no extra riders on the bills. You vote on the single issue and the bill passes or fails on its own merits.

You clear the lobbyists from within the ranks of the White House. Exercise your right to organize and to free speech but you are not to do so during operating hours. You wouldn't expect to walk into a business and start preaching your own agenda, yet we allow lobbyists to do so.

Televise and publicize votes. Make the way senators and congressmen have voted be known. They're supposed to be representing the individuals they were elected by, so those individuals should have an easy means of obtaining the way their officials have voted.

Cut all representatives salaries. No salary for the president, none for the VP, none for senators, none for congressmen.

Force candidates to run individually.

Cap campaign spending.
 
So you believe abortions can be performed until the multiplication tables are understood? Or will simple addition/subtraction be sufficient to ensure the right to continue life without the threat of extermination?

This is why I provided the anecdotal example.

You're a parent, you won't ever understand my viewpoint due to your circumstances. Thats fine.

Understand I think you viewpoint is as silly, as you think mine.
 
i hate getting into these discussions... but what the hell...



first of all many people like to use religious reasoning for opposing abortion...

even the bible doesnt claim life begins at conception...

Leviticus 17:11 KJV
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood..."

Day 1 - conception takes place.
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
10 days - mother’s menses stop.
18 days - heart begins to beat.
21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.
8 weeks - all body systems present.
9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)
18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.
20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*

Source: Facts of Fetal Development (<--- anti abortion website)


so... according to the bible life starts at 21 days


others say that a functional brain is required for life (brain dead = not alive)
that puts life at the 42 day mark

others say it is alive when it would be able to sustain life on its own
that puts life at 23+ weeks

others claim that life begins at birth




if life does indeed begin before birth... why are women who miscarry not charged with murder, or at very least negligent homicide?
 
Again, I don't believe that we need to be so radical. The structure of the government is not unmanageable IMO.

We do need to be intelligent when allowing Senators to hold seats for 40years and abstain from voting, voting only "present", or voting only on issues that are self serving.

How do we act intelligently? We limit terms. We force bills to pass on their own merits. No corporate buy outs, no pork roll, no extra riders on the bills. You vote on the single issue and the bill passes or fails on its own merits.

You clear the lobbyists from within the ranks of the White House. Exercise your right to organize and to free speech but you are not to do so during operating hours. You wouldn't expect to walk into a business and start preaching your own agenda, yet we allow lobbyists to do so.

Televise and publicize votes. Make the way senators and congressmen have voted be known. They're supposed to be representing the individuals they were elected by, so those individuals should have an easy means of obtaining the way their officials have voted.

Cut all representatives salaries. No salary for the president, none for the VP, none for senators, none for congressmen.

Force candidates to run individually.

Cap campaign spending.
These are all good ideas, but the things you seek to eliminate are the bread and butter or Washington, and probably the main reason most of these people got into politics in the first place. You are assuming competent people will sign up for public office with the sole purpose of actual public service. Money talks, working for the good of the American people is a bullshit line that politicians use to make more money.
This is why I provided the anecdotal example.

You're a parent, you won't ever understand my viewpoint due to your circumstances. Thats fine.

Understand I think you viewpoint is as silly, as you think mine.
So because I've been on both sides of the fence, I don't understand your limited perspective? I understand exactly where you're coming from. As a young, single man, you would feel no empathy toward a fetus, no emotional connection. It's just a "collection of cells" and that's enough for you to disconnect any emotional attachment from it. You are defining humanity in terms of intelligence, which doesn't work because that is an arbitrary point on a spectrum. Humanity is our unique ability to feel emotion and to extend those emotions to other humans, animals, and even inanimate objects. Your lack of empathy for a fellow "collection of cells" is most inhumane. The physical chemical compositions have nothing to do with the definition of humanity. It is only on that hyper-cognitive level that humans are separated from animals and other "collections of cells".

Everyone just likes to play semantics to avoid dealing with the responsibility of parenting. When it all boils down, a fetus is a living organism from before the sperm joins the egg. And destroying life is never something to be easily justified, especially when that life carries human DNA, regardless of it's "humanity" or cognitive state.

The E. Coli bacteria is also a life, yet we destroy it actively and with great prejudice. Why? because it is a pest, a nuisance, and can be fatal. This is the exact reason why women have abortions. The fetus is a parasite that can be fatal at worst and an 18 year nuisance at best. We justify the destruction of all forms of life to varying degrees, even human life. Even massive numbers of fully cognitive humans. I'm not going to say what is right for someone else to do, or to condemn someone else's decisions, that's not my place on this earth, but I know what I believe. I understand exactly why you think the way you do. You could list a hundred reasons why abortion is okay, but all you need is enough to justify it to yourself, so that's what you do.

When a woman told me that the decision we made together had resulted in a new human life being formed, I knew what I had to do, and it certainly wasn't to extinguish the miraculous life we had created together. I didn't see it then for what it was, but now having spent time with the most important person in my life, learning from her what my purpose on this earth is, I see that nothing will ever matter as much to me as her. No amount of money or possessions will ever be worth as much as she is. She made my life worth living.

I guess maybe I do lack understanding, because the reason why someone would throw that all away because it's not financially feasible, or not inline with their life goals is beyond my comprehension. You're throwing away gold to chase after dirt, and you'll never be as fulfilled slaving for monetary gain as I am watching that collection of cells become an amazing human being.
 
if life does indeed begin before birth... why are women who miscarry not charged with murder, or at very least negligent homicide?

Miscarriage could only be prosecuted if it could be proved that the mother was negligent in providing for the fetus (malnourishing her self, shooting heroin, etc.).

Just like charging you with negligent homicide for having a seizure while driving and running over a pedestrian would be ridiculous, miscarriages are usually outside the cognitive control of the mother.
 
Miscarriage could only be prosecuted if it could be proved that the mother was negligent in providing for the fetus (malnourishing her self, shooting heroin, etc.).

Just like charging you with negligent homicide for having a seizure while driving and running over a pedestrian would be ridiculous, miscarriages are usually outside the cognitive control of the mother.

could be manslaughter?
 
perhaps, but that's why we have a jury of our peers ;)


No, I even ensure that my nocturnal discharge is allowed to live a fulfilling existence and die a natural death. :rolleyes:


lmao.
good to see that you know where im taking this.

which is why i must call you a liar.
 
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