Orwellian politics, election 2004

[CRX-YEM]

Well after reading 1984 a few years ago I decided to rent the DVD and check out the movie and there is one section of dialog that made me think of today’s president and the US society

"In accordance to principles of doublethink it does not matter if the war is not real or whether it is, victory is not possible. The war is not ment to be won it is ment to be continuous. The essential act of one warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A heirarchal society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against it's own subjects and it's object is not victory but to keep the very structure of society in tact."

After hearing this again the war on drugs and terrorism comes to mind as there is no solution to these wars, by the US being the ruling group, the US is keeping society in order controlling gas prices, raw materials, and the economy. Limiting peoples choices as to who can and can't have the right to choose to have an abortion and when. Deciding who gets to explore stem cell research. Those who can be married. These are just some thoughts that come to mind as there are many more.

It further makes me think Orwellian politics could possibly be the natural progression of our society. Eventually big brother will endear and forever watch/control our everyday lives. This is why anyone you know of that doesn't vote should as well as voice your opinions to your state representatives about any issue in question. I'm beginning to believe if the voting public is not kept active this progression is highly probable.


* Let's not start a huge stupid debate over who anyone should vote for, but your general thoughts about whether or not ou think "1984" could become a reality.

-- if this get's off topic at all someone please lock this thread immediately, as I don't eant to see some high school antics become of this--

 

[xj0hnx]

I blame human nature. Imagine of you never experianced sadness, depression, or failure, what would be the life experiance? You can't have good without bad, it's not possible, life needs checks and balances, rich and and poor, haves and have nots. Without a governing body of sorts, human nature can not regulate itself for the good of the whole. Power struggle is bred into nature, and the laws of man are susceptible to the same. If you could somehow get everone on the planet to take personal responibility for themselves and their actions than life would be perfect. You wouldn't have locks on doors, murder or othe crimes against your fellow man, but unfortunely that isn't going to happen, there is always going to be someone that wants what someone else has.

 

[FFCiv]

kerry's known tons of sadness. like when instead of making 6 million a year he only made 5.9 mil . we should all let out a tear for him

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by FFCiv@Sep 8 2004, 05:35 AM
kerry's known tons of sadness. like when instead of making 6 million a year he only made 5.9 mil . we should all let out a tear for him

[post=387367]Quoted post[/post]​

Let's not start there, the Bush family trumps that argument outright.

Anyway, you need not look further for Orwellian Politics and ways than the USA Patriot Act. That thing is a threat to the American way of life.

When are you not being watched? I see myself on camera in just about every building I go into, even the local convenience stores. OnStar can not only pinpoint your location, but the authorities (READ: FBI) can listen in on what's going on in your car (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/technology/29car.html). Progressive Insurance now offers this new TripSense device. You plug it into your OBD-II socket and it monitors how you drive. Sure, you get a discount for this, but how long is it before something like this is a requirment for driving and the discount magically goes away?

Businesses monitor you for directed advertisment and whatnot, law enforcement monitors you for whatever purpose they want (USA Patriot Act basically lets them for whatever reason over whatever media they want). You don't have to go far to see how right Orwell was.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Sep 8 2004, 05:05 AM
I blame human nature. Imagine of you never experianced sadness, depression, or failure, what would be the life experiance? You can't have good without bad, it's not possible, life needs checks and balances, rich and and poor, haves and have nots.

[post=387362]Quoted post[/post]​

Did Eleanor teach you that?

 

[xj0hnx]

Who is Eleanor?

And the government has been spying on it's people since... well a long fucking time. It isn't the advent of the Patriot act that started it, the F.B.I. and C.I.A. has been doing it for decades. Think back to the cuban missile crisis, this is nothing new.

 

[Guy]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Sep 8 2004, 08:18 AM
And the government has been spying on it's people since... well a long fucking time. It isn't the advent of the Patriot act that started it, the F.B.I. and C.I.A. has been doing it for decades. Think back to the cuban missile crisis, this is nothing new.

[post=387386]Quoted post[/post]​

The difference now being that it is legal for them to do so. And while I am not one to use a slippery slope argument (a fallacy) doors like this, once opened, are hard to close.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Guy@Sep 8 2004, 03:17 PM
The difference now being that it is legal for them to do so. And while I am not one to use a slippery slope argument (a fallacy) doors like this, once opened, are hard to close.

[post=387401]Quoted post[/post]​

True, but theoretically since it is legal now, it should be easier to regulate, as opposed to them denying they are doing it at all.

I know a number of career monkeywrenchers, and most of them don't feel anymore threatened by this than they did before.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Sep 8 2004, 09:18 AM
Who is Eleanor?

[post=387386]Quoted post[/post]​

someone needs to watch Gone in 60 Seconds again

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Sep 8 2004, 03:43 PM-->

92b16vx

@Sep 8 2004, 09:18 AM
Who is Eleanor?

[post=387386]Quoted post[/post]​

someone needs to watch Gone in 60 Seconds again

[post=387414]Quoted post[/post]​

Ahhhhh got ya, hahaha.

Also, it's not like the Patriot Act has inspired mass domestic spying, and if you use a computer you gave up the same privacy your bitching about. I clear about twenty tracking cookies off a day. Personally, I'm more worried about people that want my personal info for profit, than record.

 

[CRX-YEM]

wow, I totally forgot about the patriot act. and I'm with ya on the cookies, and cleaning out spyware looking to make a buck off of uneducated computer users

 

[posol]

use firefox

 

[Battle Pope]

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Blanco@Sep 8 2004, 07:05 PM
we're a society of idiot rednecks who think that the American way of life is more important than the human way of life.

[post=387509]Quoted post[/post]​

And exactly what model society on earth is the utopia you call the "human way of life"?

 

[Battle Pope]

America needs to be more concerned with ourselves and worry less about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Maybe if we get off everyone's front porches, we would have fewer public buildings blown up.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Blanco+Sep 8 2004, 08:40 PM-->

This country, as a whole, is more concerned with itself than anything else.

[post=387553]Quoted post[/post]​

Originally posted by Battle Pope@Sep 8 2004, 09:26 PM
America needs to be more concerned with ourselves and worry less about what the rest of the world thinks of us.

[post=387566]Quoted post[/post]​

Interesting

Blanco
This is a culture of violence, aggression, selfishness...in fact, just read the first quote in my signature.

Can you imagine what pop bands in the Greek, or Aztec cultures were singing? My point is that it isn't America, it is humanity, has been since it's creation, formation, however you believe.

 

[xj0hnx]

Human nature can only be blamed so far. When does personal responsibility come into play?

Couldn't agree more.

And if we hadn't evolved as a people, we'd still be crucifying people, putting them on the rack, having public beheadings, burning witches at the stake, et cetera.

Is the shit that happens around the world nowadays any less disturbing?

And, since you're in the millitary, I'm sure you know that the best way to lead is by example. At this point, pretty much the only thing we're leading the world in is bombing brown people.

Not only leading by example, but also have the disipline to do the right things. And bombing brown people? Hahaha yea it's all about the white man, riiight. You do realize a huge portion of the military is "brown" right, Mexican, Puertrican, black, Samoan, etc...but when the "brown people" stop fucking with us, than we'll stop bombing them all.

It isn't the United States fault that there are those in the world that can't stop waring. And if you think that we aren't going to protect our interest, whether you like them or not, your wrong.

We're not evolving as a society, in fact we're starting to self destruct. When I say "we're not walking the human path" I mean that we're not walking the path that will enhance humaity as a whole instead of our goals as a country.

When you come up with a viable plan for world peace, and a way to eliminate greed from human nature, along with a way to keep the rest of the world happy, you let us know, tell then, things will be what they are.

Like I said before, if you think you can change it, than don't try to do it here from a computer, get out and make something of yourself, do it for real, airchair politicians are about as useful dried semen.