92-95 Hatchback

[HondaCivicSiR93]

Ok, i basicially dont know where to put my Q, and this seems right but if im wrong im sorry.

Ive been wanting a 92-95 Hatchback civic, i was gonna buy one cheap (700-1.5k) and drop a B16 SiR II? engine into it, and some other small modifications like headers and stuff.

What models came in hatcback for that year? and what ones would be worth doing this stuff to, I want to stay away from suspension/brakes/bodywork if it all possible and have a highly tuned engine. I know that the DX is off my list because ive heard they have an extremely soft "family sedan" type suspension, and the Si hatch that has the B16 SiR II? in it are going a little spendier then what i want. (why spend 6k on a 125k mile engine when u can just do a drop and have under 60k? for less then 6k)

 

[bcman]

the 92-95 hatchbacks were the CX, DX, VX, and Si. it's all here:
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/default....c=category#used
there's a bit of bunk info about an S and Si coupe, but whatever. I recommend finding an Si if you're at all interested in autocross or road racing, due to its rear disc brakes and sway bar. If you just want to go in a straight line, get a CX - it's lighter.

 

[brc80]

No factory hatch came with a b16.

 

[HondaCivicSiR93]

No hatch came with an B16? not even the Si, well thats odd, well even more of a reason to get the B16 then ...Im mainly into inline speed, but i wanna keep the civic N/A.

CX is lighter, but is the suspension crappy? And what size wheels on the CX?

My civic idea-
92 Hatch
B16 SiR II Swap
Headers
Cat-Back
Cold Air Intake
"Venom" Boost Controller
Performance Spark plugs & wires
Short Shift Kit
15 or 16 inch Rims
Strut Bars (Front and Rear)
Carbon Fiber Euro-tails and Clear front corner lens

Total: Apx 6k sound good?

 

[91crx]

why would you get a boost controller if you arent running boost?

 

[brc80]

Originally posted by HondaCivicSiR93@May 24 2004, 01:22 PM
No hatch came with an B16? not even the Si, well thats odd, well even more of a reason to get the B16 then ...Im mainly into inline speed, but i wanna keep the civic N/A.

CX is lighter, but is the suspension crappy? And what size wheels on the CX?

My civic idea-
92 Hatch
B16 SiR II Swap
Headers
Cat-Back
Cold Air Intake
"Venom" Boost Controller
Performance Spark plugs & wires
Short Shift Kit
15 or 16 inch Rims
Strut Bars (Front and Rear)
Carbon Fiber Euro-tails and Clear front corner lens

Total: Apx 6k sound good?

Before you go out and and spend your money on tail lights i think you should do some serious reading. if your serious about going fast in a straight line, you will change the suspension on any of the models you named here.

 

[HondaCivicSiR93]

Originally posted by 91crx@May 24 2004, 04:40 PM
why would you get a boost controller if you arent running boost?

well its not a turbo boost thing

engine i want-http://www.japandomesticmotor.com/viewengin.asp?id=39

oh, got my terminology off, its called a performance module-http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=135684&prmenbr=361

note- the shift kit and appearance stuff i mentioned would be last, but how much would the suspension cost?

Basically which model is the cheapest to do that stuff to, + suspension lol, i feel like an idiot now

 

[tphan4]

Originally posted by HondaCivicSiR93@May 24 2004, 09:22 PM
No hatch came with an B16? not even the Si, well thats odd, well even more of a reason to get the B16 then ...Im mainly into inline speed, but i wanna keep the civic N/A.

CX is lighter, but is the suspension crappy? And what size wheels on the CX?

My civic idea-
92 Hatch
B16 SiR II Swap
Headers
Cat-Back
Cold Air Intake
"Venom" Boost Controller
Performance Spark plugs & wires
Short Shift Kit
15 or 16 inch Rims
Strut Bars (Front and Rear)
Carbon Fiber Euro-tails and Clear front corner lens

Total: Apx 6k sound good?

why taillights???????/ewwww

 

[HondaCivicSiR93]

these arent those completely clear ones. APC makes them, they are Carbon fiber so they look like the S2k or Rx8's kinda, or i might get those new retro tailgihts they make but i wanna see them on a car first

 

[Import R]

it also depends on if you hold value for things like AC, power windows, sun roof, etc.. If none of that matters to you, grab the CX. If you want all that, you are going to have a little bit of trouble tracking down an SI.

I'd say grab a CX and go from there. Also about the venom 400 (the performance module you were talking about), its pretty much plug-n-play. You have zero adjustability for it. It's basically like an ignition and afc in 1 box. If you want to have some ability to tune, you might wanna look into an AFC. Apex'i is prolly the most common brand people buy. the V-AFC also allows you adjustability of your vtec crossover. Just something you might wanna look into before you buy.

 

[HondaCivicSiR93]

that sounds pretty cool, any idea how much one of them cost?

one quick question, if i do an engine swap, do i have to tell my insurance?, if not ill def get the CX with its 70something Hp engine =)

 

[vtecsir1]

Originally posted by Import R@May 24 2004, 05:40 PM
it also depends on if you hold value for things like AC, power windows, sun roof, etc.. If none of that matters to you, grab the CX. If you want all that, you are going to have a little bit of trouble tracking down an SI.

I'd say grab a CX and go from there. Also about the venom 400 (the performance module you were talking about), its pretty much plug-n-play. You have zero adjustability for it. It's basically like an ignition and afc in 1 box. If you want to have some ability to tune, you might wanna look into an AFC. Apex'i is prolly the most common brand people buy. the V-AFC also allows you adjustability of your vtec crossover. Just something you might wanna look into before you buy.

i have a cx with ac so what point were you trying to make.

the biggest difference between hatches is weight.

 

[turboB20hatch]

Originally posted by HondaCivicSiR93@May 24 2004, 06:42 PM

one quick question, if i do an engine swap, do i have to tell my insurance?, if not ill def get the CX with its 70something Hp engine =)

dont tell your insurance shyt.

my insurance company still thinks my car is red and has a stock DX motor.

its registered as a "family sedan".

god i love hatchbacks

 

[adnoh]

IMO........

The Dx would be the way to go in terms of a shell. It's pretty much the same as a CX, but adds some extras like intermittient wipers, and power locks. The stock suspention is garbage.....actually it's garbage on all hatch models. You're not going to get stellar results with the stock suspention on any of them. But the civic has a very capeable dual wishbone setup, so upgrading and getting results are easy. The Si is a great car in it's own right, but for a swap is arguably not the best of choice. The Si has power windows (weight), power sunroof (weight in the worst possible place [right over the center of the car]), rear disk brakes (a little weight), bigger alloy rims (weight).....and more weight. Kind of defeats the purpose of doing a swap. Dx or CX are definately the way to go. Also cheaper and more abundant.

In terms of the modifications and bolt-ons you want to do.........Sllllooooowww down!! Take care of the important stuff first. All the money you have put away for bolt-ons will be eaten by the swap. Anyone who has done a swap before knows that everything that can go wrong, usually does go wrong. You have to be prepared for the worst. Get the engine in the car first, then worry about your Tony Jabroni parts later. Just a stock DX with the B16A swap will give you a car that will make you smile from ear to ear every time you drive it.

Read the swap articles, and search the forums of this site......It'll give you all the info you need on the swap and troubleshooting issues.

Good luck.

 

[dohch22a4]

Originally posted by adnoh@May 25 2004, 11:12 AM
IMO........

The Dx would be the way to go in terms of a shell. It's pretty much the same as a CX, but adds some extras like intermittient wipers, and power locks. The stock suspention is garbage.....actually it's garbage on all hatch models. You're not going to get stellar results with the stock suspention on any of them. But the civic has a very capeable dual wishbone setup, so upgrading and getting results are easy. The Si is a great car in it's own right, but for a swap is arguably not the best of choice. The Si has power windows (weight), power sunroof (weight in the worst possible place [right over the center of the car]), rear disk brakes (a little weight), bigger alloy rims (weight).....and more weight. Kind of defeats the purpose of doing a swap. Dx or CX are definately the way to go. Also cheaper and more abundant.

Heh... no.

The Si hatch does not have power windows or locks. The rear discs are a good thing, the extra unsprung weight is fucking NEGLIGABLE, believe me I know. Having a swapped VX myself, I really wish I had rear discs. Come to Spokane and I'll take you on a run down Waikiki. The pink, glowing 9" front rotors speak for themselves. Plus, the Si came with 14" steelies and dub caps, y0. Not alloys. Also, stock sway bars are nice, not only because it handles better in the first place but there are actually mounting points that exist if you want to install aftermarket sways.

The Si owns for a swap car. Even if it does weigh 150 lbs more than a DX, it still only weighs 2300 lbs! Plus, if you really care about the heavy sunroof sitting on top of the car, many places sell sarbon fiber replacement panels for them that weigh less than having just roof in place of the sunroof.

 

[xj0hnx]

I was about a week away from getting a Si hatch, and I was so pissed, even still that they sold it before I got my loan. Fucking sunroofs rock, stock rear disc are nice, and A/C (going to South Texas) would be a plus. Oh no 150 lbs more!!!, Damn I guess it's time to boost.

 

[adnoh]

Info from Project EG hatch-Sport compact car magazine,

The miserly VX weighs the lightest with a 2,094-lb curb weight, with the CX not far behind at 2,108 lbs, the DX at 2,178 lbs and the Si weighing a portly 2,390 lbs. Diffrence of 212lbs, not 150 for DX, 282lbs for CX. Big diffrence.

The added weight of all the associated luxury items standard on an Si, however, comes close to offsetting the performance advantage offered by a larger engine.

The VX and CX are plastered with less sound-deadening materials than the DX or especially the Si.

Otherwise, the difference in weight has to do with lighter wheels on the VX, lack of air conditioning and, on the DX, additional small items like an adjustable steering column, and cargo cover

The Si has a different interior, adjustable steering column, intermittent windshield wipers, a cargo cover, passenger vanity mirror, driver's foot rest, body-colored power mirrors, upgraded sound system, and most importantly, a power moonroof, which adds significant weight in the worst possible place, at the tallest point in the car. It also reduces headroom by half an inch, which can be the difference between your helmet hitting the roof or not.

The Si had the option of power locks (my Dx has power locks).

Sorry bout the rims.....my mistake.

Rear disks do abso-fucking-lutely nothing. You are no better off with disks, that's why most people wont bother doing rear disk conversions on the cx-dx.....No payoff.....they just look better. Front rotors are where it counts, which the Si has 1" bigger than the other two resulting in slightly better braking power...I'll definately give it that.

The mounts for aftermarket sway bars are definately a plus on the Si. Granted.

In terms of doing a B16A swap, CX/DX have the power to weight ratio advantage over the Si any way you slice it ,and will own the Si in getting the maximum power potential of your swap. The Si will own the rest in terms of out of the box handling and luxary.

Once again, this is IMO. Everyone is entitled to their own.

So for the Poster, here is some great info on your swap, you should thank all of the people who posted for their input.

 

[E_SolSi]

Originally posted by adnoh@May 25 2004, 04:25 PM
Rear disks do abso-fucking-lutely nothing. You are no better off with disks, that's why most people wont bother doing rear disk conversions on the cx-dx.....No payoff.....they just look better.

disks get rid of heat faster than drums, making them less prone to over heating and fading

for drag racing this will not be an issue at all
for normal street driving this will not be much of an issue
for anything that requires repetitive agressive braking this will be a HUGE issue

 

[adnoh]

Just some more info on those rear disks....

Quoting Loco Honkey here.......

Discs in the rear won't do a damn thing for your braking.

Rear disc isn't worth it on a passenger car for a few reasons...

1) Brake bias is such that the front brakes do 80% of the braking under threshold braking.

2) The CG in a passenger car is above the axle, so weight transfer will shift forward, lightening the rear wheels, reducing their braking effectiveness.

3) Drums will produce higher braking forces than disc, but do so at the expense of more heat.

I've done a few rear disc swaps and haven't been impressed. The pedal feels a little more solid, but that could be from the SS lines we've put in each time. Other than that, there's no difference.

And yes, the SS lines most likely were the reason they felt better, as I stated. The reason "performance" cars have rear discs is to shed heat and look better. From a purely performance standpoint on a 2000- 2300 lb. car with the CG above the axle, rear brakes aren't as important as the front. I had drums on my CRX, and rear discs on my '93 Si hatch. I didn't notice any difference in braking performance. Then I installed some Wilwood brakes on a friends '94 Si hatch and holy sheep shit, you could ride the ABS all the way down from 140 MPH and not fade the brakes at ALL, and the braking distance was greatly reduced, as well. I'm willing to bet that if you installed the Wilwood brakes on the front of a Civic with drums in the rear, you'd be plenty happy. Or hell, Porterfield R4S pads/ shoes and some SS lines all around, some Brembo blanks up front, HF drums in the rear (they have heat sinks on 'em)... You'd be surprised how much just that would wake up the car. Other things to consider would be wheels with larger voids between the spokes and the removal of the dust shields. I took my dust shields off and noticed less fade.

 

[xj0hnx]

The miserly VX weighs the lightest with a 2,094-lb curb weight, with the CX not far behind at 2,108 lbs, the DX at 2,178 lbs and the Si weighing a portly 2,390 lbs. Diffrence of 212lbs, not 150 for DX, 282lbs for CX. Big diffrence.

Actually, it depends on the year, and options, not an article from a magazine

The added weight of all the associated luxury items standard on an Si, however, comes close to offsetting the performance advantage offered by a larger engine.

Um, I guess you've never driven a Si directly after a CX, or a VX, hahaha there is a monster difference

In terms of doing a B16A swap, CX/DX have the power to weight ratio advantage over the Si any way you slice it ,and will own the Si in getting the maximum power potential of your swap. The Si will own the rest in terms of out of the box handling and luxary

Ok, now open your eyes and let reality set in. No, it is NOT going to "own" anything.

Did I mention, sunroofs rock.