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94 hatch w b18 ls vtec issues

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by schu725, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    I recently got a 94 civic with a b18a ls vtec that has a bunch of goodies on it. I only took the car with intents of commuting in it. If its too much of a headache i'll just part the thing out. I think the previous owner wasted a lot of money on mismatched parts. the car has skunk stage 2 cams, a skunk 68mm tb, dc sport header, type-r intake, msd dis 2, arais 9:1 comp pistons and some Supposed tune. issues are that the idle either lopes at 600 like a big block (when cold), or at 13-1700 smooth as can be when warm. also the car runs pretty rich when at low idle. The car has a stumble when it hits vtec at like 5200 for a split second it is worse when its cold vs fully warmed up.

    I really wouldnt mind going to a stock gsr tune, with stock gsr cams, and stock tb and get ok fuel millage with it. Who burns programs, or can put a factory map back into these ecms, or what ecm should i use ? i am not looking for a high performance anything, just want to sort the issues and have a fun beater for work. thanks for any help

    jon
     
  2. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    The parts match up sounds good. I would get rid of the MSD crap and go back to stock dizzy and coil. The stock ignition system is good to 500hp so why mess with it. The pistons are low compression, stock Ls is 9.4:1 with a GSR head it should be around 9.6:1. With that compression I asume it was built for turbo. Find out what ECU you are running and what tuning system you have if at all. You need to ge on a dyno and see what is going on. The low loopy idle is not right, Vtec is designed to have a stock idle no matter the size cams. Check cam timimg to make sure it was not set wrong. If you have a stock GRS intake manifold make sure the valves in it are wired in and you are using the right ECU or have a ECU that is flashed and tuned for a GSR intake manifold.
     
  3. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    i was told it is a type-r style intake, i dont see where any valves would be on it for a variable runner intake.

    i was going to check cam timing this weekend, and see if it's off.

    he gave me a stock distributor, so i'll swap that back on.
    thanks for all the feedback

    jon
     
  4. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    The GSR intake is large and putts the TB lower in the enginge bay. The Type R is a short manifold with almost straight runners. Slap that stock dizzy back on for sure. What ECU are you using??
     
  5. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Its running rich b/c most tuners will tune an ECU on the safe side....which is the rich side for Air to Fuel Ratios.

    It idles way up 1300-1700rpm's when warm?
    The low/bad idle when its cold might have something to do with no Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV)?
    Does it even have a Idle Air Control Valve (IACV)?? Those are sometimes bypassed/capped in Honda Builds too.
    FITV controls idle at cold temps and IACV controls idle at running temps

    If its a true commuter....I would look into getting running good and sell the longblock. In my opinion, the current set up is far from ideal for commuting. You could take the money and throw a B18B1 longblock and USDM OBD1 P75 ECU in it and get decent torque and 32-35mpg's on the highway ($400-600). Keep the mounts/transmission/axles/shiftlinkage. You will obviously lose HP but it will run very normal and be a good commuter that will whoop on Stock Mustang GT's (especially if you have a VTEC transmission!)
     
  6. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    it has a type-r intake, with the straight runners. There are 3 plugs on the harness near the map sensor that have nothing plugged into them, or empty spots in the intake. the only things on the intake are the iacv, and a map sensor. i have 2 ecms, i'll get the numbers off of them tomorrow. The one ecm has the same 3 connectors but is MUCH smaller, like 6x8 inches instead of 8x10 that is currently running the car.

    jon
     
  7. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    The smaller ECU is probably JDM. My JDM P30 is much smaller than my USDM P30.
    Does the little one have a socket installed on it? (for tuning)
    If it doesn't, you can take the four screws off the smaller one and check to see if there's a chip installed. Look for something on the bottom right or top left (depending on the side you are looking from) I bought a ECU that I thought was a virgin and it ended up being some knock off with a SST chip and I found out its a popular brand used to burn programs on. If there's no chip....you got a virgin ECU that could be used.

    One of your stray plugs is most likely the Evap Purge Solenoid and you have a JDM intake manifold.
    But you should have a intake temp sensor too.....? (around runner #1 by timing belt)
    And you should have a plug for the TPS that is plugged in (right next to the MAP)

    Sounds like you have a OBD2 throttle body and they do not have a FITV (attached at the bottom of the TB). OBD2 cold temp idle control is done by the ECU....But you have a OBD1 ECU which depends on the FITV so could be a source of it idling rough when its cold (if you have a OBD2 TB)

    You should take the IACV off and look to see if its clean or not. Its probably not too bad but it can't hurt to clean it with some carb cleaner (let it dry for 20-30 minutes).

    You also might have the idle set really high.....not sure (to compensate for the low idle when cold b/c no FITV)

    There are tons of scenarios that could be going on and you have tons of options.

    Hondas are becoming like Cafe Racers from the 60's.....pieces of a chopped up Frankenstein crushing Muff-Stanks in their way lmao
     
  8. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    Its funny I never heard of Cafe Racers until that New Cafe Racers show came on TV LOL.
    You have some research to do. You need to find you what motor setup and ECU are running. And when tuning the fuel trims are leaned out slightly not richened.
     
  9. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Most tuners will keep it on the rich side though (its helps avoid catastrophic failure) Leaning out gets more power but is more risky (at least from my conversations with tuners)
    You might have aftermarket injectors too (which will dump the fuel like no one's business). Simply stated, you could have a variety of things going on.

    I say you take this as a challenge or you do what I said eariler and sell the longblock/ECU and get e B18B1 longblock/P75 ECU.
    It will be plug and play (except no more VTEC needed)

    I learned of Cafe Racers from the Hot Rod shows I been going to since I was a kid (my dad builds Hot Rods for fun). Its all about that 60's style race bike. You can see some versions of them in movies like Mad Max (Mel Gibson). But ever since that show Cafe Racer started, I am really digging the whole thought of them. Might have to make that another project but I would need to educate myself a whole lot more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  10. syckek

    syckek New Member

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    need help

    i got a b18a1 swap in my ek, im having problems with it backfiring, and when im driving it just cuts off, even sitting in the driveway it just dies, its running rich the fuel pump was just replaced timeing redone, but still having problems, i know it needs an 02 sensor but as of right now its just caped off can someone tell me what it might be??
     
  11. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    i found a gsr intake that is complete (sensors, tb, ect). I am going to swap that on, and re-time the engine.

    In the meantime the mini computer has a # on the barcode tag. its 37820-p30-j00 below that is 474-101984 than the letter ATD on the side of the tag. I removed the 4 screws, and it looks like it's all stock but i have no basis of comparison. Thanks for all the help, and hopefully i can have a pretty bad arse little bubble hatch when this is all done.

    jon
     
  12. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    Get an O2 on there, ECU does not know how much air and fuel there is. That is a start but it sound like there are more problems. Pull plugs and check for spark and look for carbon traces on the plugs. Im a tech and work on cars all day. I can tell you that a miss fire or back fire can be cause by many many things. It needs to be diagnosed to find the source of the issue.
     
  13. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    First off, you need to understand this is not your thread and you are thread jacking. Its effed up and wrong of you. Get it straight.....if you couldn't make your own thread...you should have piggy-backed off a thread that was more like you problem. How the hell can you think you are not sure what is going on when you KNOW you need an O2? Your thought process is whack! Get the correct O2 in there and then see whatr happens. If you got a check engine light....stop asking for ideas until the light is no longer on.
     
  14. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Are you sure its a GSR head? If you have a Type R IM now....and you are certain of this....ther is no way that GSR IM will fit. GSR and Type R have different IM bolt patterns. You need a B16A IM (preferably OBD1) But in all honesty.....keep the IM you have (its not that hard core performance based anyways). But you can use those injectors off the GSR (if they are bone stock ones and must be OBD1 or its a wiring nightmare). You can use the GSR TB too!

    Your ECU numbers looks like a JDM P30 (B16A) Same ECU that I have at home. If its untouched (virgin....no chip)....that ECU along with some stock injectors and stock TB and stock timing.....it will (most likely) be less tempermental and get better gas mileage.
     
  15. hondafreak513

    hondafreak513 New Member

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    jk..i thought that one dusche said you can modify a gsr intake to fit a b16 head..the bumble bee civic for sale... i know right
     
  16. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    [​IMG]


    Look at the bottom right of the ECU I had that was chipped. See the SST chip? Its hard to see the SST in the picture but its the rectangular chip next to that skinny vertical chip that says DIS168
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2010
  17. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    that looks like the computer that is in the car running it now, chip and all.

    the smaller JDM b-16 computer looks like there is a 3x3 motherboard on top of that cross bar. across the whole lower right of the pcm.

    on another note i looked and it is a b-16 intake
     
  18. hondafreak513

    hondafreak513 New Member

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    wait does the jdm have the samll 3x3 board in it or does the usdm have it on a p72
     
  19. schu725

    schu725 New Member

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    the p30 joo (small ecu) has a smaller 3x3 moterboard above the actual one.

    the larger ecu that is currently in the car has a chip of some sort in it, it looks identical to the one picture earlier in the thread.
     
  20. hondafreak513

    hondafreak513 New Member

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    just making sure cause my p72 has the small board on top of it too
     
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