Allmotormonster question

[bcreez]

auto or m/t
37820-P28-A52
761-723891
AWN
reason i'm asking is cause i bought this ecu from ebay from someone who claimed it to be out of a 5 speed. hooked it to my B18c1 motor and started flashing code 19 for the auto lock control sol. which would only flash if it were an auto ecu, right?
and yes i unplugged the IAB connector before i started it up so it should have been a dead pin.

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Auto.

A= Americas
5= Auto
2= 3rd firmware revision


Also, the IAB's won't show a code on the ecu.

 

[bcreez]

thanx, i figured it out. if the second to last digit is 5 its an auto.
also found out how to convert it to a 5 spd ecu by messing with rp17 and rp18 resistors.
one more thing, on a p28 auto ecu and a manual ecu is everything the same like does the vtec kick in at the same rpm on an auto and a manual?

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Originally posted by bcreez@Nov 1 2003, 05:34 PM
thanx, i figured it out. if the second to last digit is 5 its an auto.
also found out how to convert it to a 5 spd ecu by messing with rp17 and rp18 resistors.
one more thing, on a p28 auto ecu and a manual ecu is everything the same like does the vtec kick in at the same rpm on an auto and a manual?

Yes, and no.

Remember, what you are converting is the hardware, not the software. The internal chip is still programmed for a AUTO trans. There are distinct differences between the auto and manual programs.

 

[bcreez]

got any examples like
auto ecu does this ......
but m/t does this....
for the p28 ecu or were i can find the differences

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Originally posted by bcreez@Nov 2 2003, 01:35 AM
got any examples like
auto ecu does this ......
but m/t does this....
for the p28 ecu or were i can find the differences

Sure.

Auto ECU has lower fuel and timing maps because the Auto ecu uses a different cam and shifts the car at a set RPM. SO, it is optimized for those shift points and cam settings.

You can find the differences in the HEX file programmed into the ecu. Kinda hard to decypher, but it's there.

 

[bcreez]

so would one of the infamous mugen, spoon, skunk, etc... style ebay chips help the auto ecu to get a better fuel curve, vtec point, and new rev limit and bypass the sucky automatic fuel maps or should i just sell it and find a p28 from a m/t.
gonna be using it on a b18c1. using the p28 because gotta skunk manifold

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Sure those programs would work and bypass in internal auto program.

 

[bcreez]

THANX for all the help!
U Da man!

 

[radnulb]

unfortunately, AllMotorMonster just spread some misinformation.
Automatic ECUs and Manual ECUs have an identical program inside, including tuning information. The same code can be found in both a P28-A02 (5-spd) and P28-A52 (auto). The manual ECU has code to run an automatic transmission, but the code (and tuning tweaks) are disabled with the jumper config. If you don't believe me, check the 3 digit code on your P28's main processor. (the chip marked "66207") I'll bet money it is either 251 or 304, both of which are also used in manual P28s.

point being: dyno a manual P28 and a auto P28 converted to manual with jumpers and jumpers alone and they will be identical. The tweaks to vtec, etc. are turned on/off with the jumpers.

 

[bcreez]

removed rp17 and jumped rp18 last night, took about 5 minutes with fellow member "gocivicls"
worked like a charm. no CEL no crazy idle
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Originally posted by radnulb@Nov 3 2003, 07:30 PM
unfortunately, AllMotorMonster just spread some misinformation.
Automatic ECUs and Manual ECUs have an identical program inside, including tuning information. The same code can be found in both a P28-A02 (5-spd) and P28-A52 (auto). The manual ECU has code to run an automatic transmission, but the code (and tuning tweaks) are disabled with the jumper config. If you don't believe me, check the 3 digit code on your P28's main processor. (the chip marked "66207") I'll bet money it is either 251 or 304, both of which are also used in manual P28s.

point being: dyno a manual P28 and a auto P28 converted to manual with jumpers and jumpers alone and they will be identical. The tweaks to vtec, etc. are turned on/off with the jumpers.

Negative there ghost rider....

I have stock rom dumps from both ECU's and I guarantee they are different. I could post all the code here, but it would take up too much room.


radnulb - I just realized who you are.... LOL! If you look more in depth, you will notice there are differences in the 2 programs. I'll send you the bin files if you want.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by radnulb@Nov 3 2003, 06:30 PM
unfortunately, AllMotorMonster just spread some misinformation.
Automatic ECUs and Manual ECUs have an identical program inside, including tuning information. The same code can be found in both a P28-A02 (5-spd) and P28-A52 (auto). The manual ECU has code to run an automatic transmission, but the code (and tuning tweaks) are disabled with the jumper config. If you don't believe me, check the 3 digit code on your P28's main processor. (the chip marked "66207") I'll bet money it is either 251 or 304, both of which are also used in manual P28s.

point being: dyno a manual P28 and a auto P28 converted to manual with jumpers and jumpers alone and they will be identical. The tweaks to vtec, etc. are turned on/off with the jumpers.

Duh they use the same processor it is much cheaper to do so. That is no where the program is stored. I bet they use the same ROM chip as well. The only way you can see a difference is to watch the ECU output through a range of different inputs.

I am going to go with AllMotorMonster here. They are different programs.

 

[radnulb]

lsvtec: see http://www.nitroburn.com/pgmfiwiki/index.p...DefinitionCodes
On 99% of OBD1 ECUs, the code that runs the car is stored inside the 66207 MCU. The 3 digit code on the MCU tells you WHICH program is in there.

AllMotorMonster: email me. I've personally held P28-A51 and P28-A01 ECUs side by side and had the same proc code stamped on the processors. There are distinct differences between the 251 and 304 P28 code, but not *that* many. There has been a lot of debate on this issue over at pgmfi. It's well known that some programs (Mugen variants are the most notable example) will run in manual mode, EVEN ON AN AUTO ECU. There is obviously a hardware-software interaction of some sort going on, but I don't think anyone has offered commented code to back up their theory well enough yet.

peace
-Dave

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Dave,

I never disputed the claim about the chip # on the top of the chip. I'll get those files for you, maybe you can DASM them and find out what the deal is.

 

[gocivicls]

Maybe other stuff like transisters, capacitors, and resisters else where on the board can differ between Auto and Manual.

Allowing the same processors, with diff. results. Just a thought.

 

[AllMotorMonster]

Originally posted by gocivicls@Nov 4 2003, 09:22 PM
Maybe other stuff like transisters, capacitors, and resisters else where on the board can differ between Auto and Manual.

Allowing the same processors, with diff. results. Just a thought.

Um, how about maybe NOT.


Had you read the entire thread, this was already covered.

Transistor is spelled t-r-a-n-s-i-s-t-O-r

Resistor is spelled r-e-s-i-s-t-O-r

yourself

 

[radnulb]

he's actually more right than he realizes Monster...

The Jumper configuration resistors cause a cascade of events to happen (most notably: ram bytes/bits set/cleared) that are then referenced in various parts of the code (such as the vtec activation routine). Ever wonder why there are so many hex addressses referenced in the vtec routine but only one set actually does anything? I'd love to take a look at the code dumps you have. I'm working much harder on OBD0 than OBD1 stuff right now, but maybe a lil diversion would be good.
peace
-Dave

 

[gocivicls]

Originally posted by AllMotorMonster+Nov 5 2003, 01:21 PM-->

gocivicls

@Nov 4 2003, 09:22 PM
Maybe other stuff like transisters, capacitors, and resisters else where on the board can differ between Auto and Manual.

Allowing the same processors, with diff. results. Just a thought.

Um, how about maybe NOT.


Had you read the entire thread, this was already covered.

Transistor is spelled t-r-a-n-s-i-s-t-O-r

Resistor is spelled r-e-s-i-s-t-O-r

yourself

Not an english major, aren't you glad! But I do have a degree in Electonics Engineering, and I do understand how circuits work to a certain degree. No pun intended.

The wasn't aimed towards you, I don't know why it affected you.
The statement I made was after I read the entire post, but the point was not brought up. That the components around the processor will affect the end results.

 

[AllMotorMonster]

WOW, you're a double E and you can't spell what you use everyday?

Makes me wonder.