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B20VTEC will be my first engine building....

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by trequartista_10, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. trequartista_10

    trequartista_10 Junior Honda Builder

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    Hey guys,:D:D:D

    Started on this forum a while back, but just havent post anything since i got limited english.

    I got a 1993 honda civic si (canada version), which is has a sohc vtec on it, and now i'm thinking to build a B20VTEC, and need some advices here.

    The purpose of this setup is will be my DAILY DRIVE, race ONCE A WHILE, and yet WILL ALWAYS N/A.

    Well first of all i might be silly to do my first engine building to build this beast, but yeah I just got some curiousity since people said that this is the most potent set up.

    If you are thinking that i'm just a lazy ass that dont want to do the research about my question, THEN U ARE WRONG and I DID A LOT OF RESEARCH!!!!

    I've READ the most stickiest posting ever that Bam2x wrote, I've READ pissedofdelsol posting in the general articles forum and some other elses that I found while I'm doing some research, here it is the list for the research that I found, and BIG thanks to these guys!!!

    http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914
    http://www.gtcars.ca/online/honda-acura/13467-b20-ls-vtec-faq-parts-list.html
    http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/b-series-tech/13263-b20-lsvtec-faq-parts-list.html
    http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.php
    http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0411scc_ls_vtech_engine/index.html
    http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-articles/ls-vtec-cr-vtec-info-8/
    http://hondaswap.com/engine-building/my-1st-crvtec-build-147068/

    Now this is my list, that I might need and I might not need it depends on your guy's advices, and thats why I'm here.

    Here is my list:
    B16A2 head (usdm 99-00 civic SiR) with stock valve train and will be refinish
    B20Z block from a 99-01 CRV, and will leave all the stock internal parts.
    ARP head bolt for sure
    ACL main bearing for sure
    ITR or GSR with LSD tranny
    P28 ECU and will be chipped
    Fuel pump regulator
    adjustable cam gear
    Golden eagle vtec conversion kit
    High to medium end name exhaust system
    Since I'm gonna use the B20Z block then I will just use B20Z head gasket
    usdm 99-00 civic sir timing belt, water pump and oil pump.
    Will balance all the rotating parts

    List I missed and added by some nice guys:
    GSR timing belt
    VTEC head gasket
    Walbro 255 fuel pump
    RC 390 injectors (and injector clips)

    Did I missed something?
    Or did I listed something that useless?
    If so, please let me know.

    And here are some question that still floating in my head after i read those forums that I found when i'm reasearching.

    1. How much power can it produce? Not to be specific, just approximately.

    2. I'm thinking to get the GSR IN and EX cam, will it make any different? Since I know the B16 is kind of suck on the torque. And if I did, what should I do? any modification needed or it just simply bolt on?
    Or should I just get the gsr head so I can get higher compression ratio?

    3. I also think to get the head port and polish, will it make a big different?

    4. Milled head is it possible? since there isnt a lot of valve piston clearance on this set up.

    5. What engine mount can i use on this set up to install it into 1993 honda civic si (EG)

    6. What engine harness should I get?

    7. I'm gonna use the stock internal of B20Z block, so it means I will use B20Z pistons and rods, so I have to use B20Z crankshaft as well, should I?

    8. Can I use B16A2 flywheel?

    Ok I think thats all my question for now, and please please and my 1000 please I need some advices here, I will start to build in soon.

    I know some qeustion is kind of noob, but YES i'm a noob in Honda, but I'm NOT a noob in automotive industry, I know what I'm doing.

    Oh yeah since I live in Vancouver, there is a smog legal in here, so I cant modified it too crazy, otherwise I wont pass the smog.

    Thanks guys I really appreciate in advance.

    May ALL Honda and Acura builders have a good time.:D:D:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  2. 99sidude

    99sidude Moderator Moderator VIP

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    It's great to see a newb actually doing research. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the 99' si timing belt will be too short due to the b16 having a shorter deck height than the other b series. You will want a gsr or type r belt. Also, I would recommend ARP rod bolts as well. The rod bolts are the weakest link in the ls/b20 bottom end, and won't be happy revving high.

    1. How much power can it produce? Not to be specific, just approximately.

    2. I'm thinking to get the GSR IN and EX cam, will it make any different? Since I know the B16 is kind of suck on the torque. And if I did, what should I do? any modification needed or it just simply bolt on?
    Or should I just get the gsr head so I can get higher compression ratio?

    3. I also think to get the head port and polish, will it make a big different? NO.. A waste of $$$

    4. Milled head is it possible? since there isnt a lot of valve piston clearance on this set up. IDK on this one.

    5. What engine mount can i use on this set up to install it into 1993 honda civic si (EG) B Series mounts from a 94-01 integra

    6. What engine harness should I get? Modify the stock one. See reference section

    7. I'm gonna use the stock internal of B20Z block, so it means I will use B20Z pistons and rods, so I have to use B20Z crankshaft as well, should I? An LS crank will work too.

    8. Can I use B16A2 flywheel? YES
     
  3. haao13

    haao13 New Member

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    wouldnt he need the b16 headgasket not the b20?
     
  4. 99sidude

    99sidude Moderator Moderator VIP

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    yes i missed that one. you will need a vtec hed gasket
     
  5. trequartista_10

    trequartista_10 Junior Honda Builder

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    Million thanks to people who respond me so far, Ok I will add in my list for the gsr timing belt, and vtec head gasket, but anyway, B16A2 head gasket will work?

    But I still need some comment and advices from others, please help this poor newbie, I dont want to blow my engine or at least have to take any internal off again after i install them all.

    1. How much power can it produce? Not to be specific, just approximately.

    2. I'm thinking to get the GSR IN and EX cam, will it make any different? Since I know the B16 is kind of suck on the torque. And if I did, what should I do? any modification needed or it just simply bolt on?
    Or should I just get the gsr head so I can get higher compression ratio?

    3. I also think to get the head port and polish, will it make a big different?

    4. Milled head is it possible? since there isnt a lot of valve piston clearance on this set up.

    5. What engine mount can i use on this set up to install it into 1993 honda civic si (EG)

    6. What engine harness should I get?

    7. I'm gonna use the stock internal of B20Z block, so it means I will use B20Z pistons and rods, so I have to use B20Z crankshaft as well, should I?

    Right here waiting............
    Project will begin in next 2 weeks, and will start to ordering the parts....

    Thanks guys, and thanks to 99sidude.

    May ALL Honda and Acura builders have a good time.:D:D:D
     
  6. haao13

    haao13 New Member

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    most of it was already answered. but if your just gonna get gsr cams why not just get a gsr head?
     
  7. boostin4fun

    boostin4fun Boosted ls/vtec ohh yeah!

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    He is going to need the b20 headgasket. The b16 headgasket will not work it is for a 81mm bore when the b20 is an 84mm bore.
     
  8. xxstrungfknoutxx

    xxstrungfknoutxx Not So Junior Member

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    ok first off no dont mill your head because the valve reliefs on your pistons are not deep enough for a b16's intake valves. i know this first hand i pulled my b16 head off my b20 block and can visually see where the pistons were scarred by the valves, you can do it but it would be better to get some aftermarket pistons. also correct me if im wrong anyone but your crank and rods are the exact same as the ls so either or.... and as for mounts just pay the 400 to 500 bucks for hasports it will be worth it in the long run
     
  9. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

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    How much power? I've seen "stock" block B20V's make 180 with proper tuning. Do you have a tuner for this build?

    Whoever said porting the head is a waste of money is an idiot. Porting the head will make power... how much? I dont know. But the easier more air flow can get into and outta the head is ALWAYS a good thing.

    Granted you wont take full advantage until you either boost or bump compression and add larger cams.

    As for your headgasket, use the B20B or B20Z headgasket.

    GSR cams are probably your best bet unless you have a machine shop cut the pistons to allow for more clearance.

    I wouldn't EVER mill a head to gain compression. I'd either do it right, get new pistons (RS Machine or CP) or use a thinner headgasket. You can only mill a head so much until it becomes worthless. .045" I think.

    Harness - modify your stock one. I dont think there's a lot to really modify since the car is already VTEC.

    Mounts - you can either use stock mounts from a 94-01 Integra or get a mount kit. I like Innovative.

    Yes you can use a stock B16 flywheel. Just get it resurfaced.




    I'd also recommend a Walbro 255 fuel pump as well as RC 390 injectors (and injector clips).
     
  10. trequartista_10

    trequartista_10 Junior Honda Builder

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    Hi guys,

    THANKS A LOT for the answers, I really2 appreciate it.

    Brian, Can I ask some more question from you?

    You said: "GSR cams are probably your best bet unless you have a machine shop cut the pistons to allow for more clearance." Did you mean that get a GSR cam will be better on torque and power, because thats what I'm looking for, since b16 cam its like low on torque? (Sorry limited english)

    And for the harnesses, If I modified my harnesses then i got it chipped, what about if any sensor broken and the check engine light comes on, Can I get the code by jumping DLC connector that how i usually do on my OBD 1 ECU? Because I'm very sure, since I'm gonna use B16A2 head and B20Z block which both of them has OBD2, how can I convert them to OBD1?

    For the mount, I'm kind of confuse again here, in this link (B series into 92-95 civic swap information - B20Vtec.Com...... B Series and Beyond) I found out that I have to modify the 94-01 integra mount, but now everybody said in here that I can just use them without any mod?? And any mount variant between B20B block and B20Z?

    And what you mean by injector clips, do you mean the clips that hold the injector?
    Should I get any aftermarket fuel rail?

    I agree with boostin4fun and Brian11to1, I need the B20 head gasket, that make more sense.

    And yeap Walbro 255 fuel pump as well as RC 390 injectors (and injector clips) will be added onto my lists.

    Thanks a lot guys,

    Hopefully you guys can answer some of my new question again,

    ANY MORE ADVICES????????

    Help this poor NOOB please..........

    Thank you very much........
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  11. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    390cc injectors aren't necessary for a stock internal B20/VTEC build. They won't hurt, but you'll lose tuning accuracy and resolution by going with too large of an injector. I would recommend 310s at the largest if you're not going to mod the internals of the engine.

    1. Probably 160-170whp depending on quality of parts and tune.
    2. GSR cams good, GSR head not necessary if it's going to cost you significantly more. You won't pick up that much more compression. If you have to pick between spending money on the GSR head vs buying high compression forged pistons, go with the pistons.
    3. Head work- always worth it. Make sure you know what kind of port job you want though, and that you've decided to lock in your cam and piston choice so that the flow characteristics of the head can be matched to them.
    4. Don't mill the head except to clean it up. Gain compression through other means.
    5. Any B series swap setup. Answered in the reference section too as to which stock mounts you can mix/match to do it on the cheap.
    6. Mod what you've got.
    7. All the 89mm stroke B series cranks will work the same. Sticking with the original crankshaft in the original block will be easier though when it comes to selecting bearings... if you don't spec out the bearings the really hard/expensive/good way. ;)
    8. Yup
     
  12. trequartista_10

    trequartista_10 Junior Honda Builder

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    Sorry havent been write any reply yet for a month, because I was busy finishing up my del sol that I'm gonna use when I'm building the EG, as usual right, everything wont work as planned, thats what happen with the delsol that i built so far.

    I'm still here, and still wondering and waiting for some good advices that some of ou guys have given to me.

    I'd to start on that i knew now that I have to use a B20B/Z head gasket since the bore diameter is different between B16/18 and B20 head gasket, it makes more sense to me.

    Porting and polish I might do it my self, just to get rid of the rough surface,and I'll just mill my head to get it flat.

    I'm clear on the engine mount, I can use the stock B series engine mount, and use my civic rubber mount.

    But know another question floating in my mind, about the harness.

    How can I modify my harness to get all the sensor and plug ready and works properly? are the B series sensors and plug almost the same as my civic? I mean like the ECT, IAC, DIZZY, etc connectors are the same plug as mine?
    And I will use the P28 ECU and get it chipped right, so it means that my car will still run on the OBD1, Am i correct?

    The other thing is if this set up can only produce 170-180 hp with a proper tune, why dont i just get a GSR motor that can produce the same amount of power and it might cost me a little bit less then? please need advice here, why people still bother to do this set up while it can produce the same amount of power with the GSR motor?

    I really want to get the GSR head on this set up, but the problem is kind of hard to get a GSR head here in Vancouver, not so many people want to sell it. Thats why i just want to get the IN and EX cam from the gsr which my friend has it for sale, and put it into my B16A2 head.
    Will it make any different?
    Any modification needed to install it into the B16A2 head, or it just simply put and play?

    Ok, I think thats all the question that floating in my mind right now, and PLEASE, PLEASE AND PLEASE GUYS GIVE ME SOME ADVICES.....

    HELP THIS NEWBIE....

    May Honda and Acura builder has a wonderful day...........

    Cheers....
     
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