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Civic Ex Build-up & Swap!! Need Info

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by michilson, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Okay guys need some help on this one....

    Here's what i have... I have a 97 Civic Coupe Ex 1.6 Vetc - 5-speed...

    I want to retain Power Steering and A/C (Just incease i want it down the road)

    I would like to be in the 450 - 500 hp range on pump gas...

    I do have plans to turbo and Nitrous The new motor...

    And will Build it up fro the inside out for that power rating...

    Not sure if a B-20 with swaped heads is the best bet or if theres something better....

    I wanna be able to eat up GSR's And TYPE R Integra's and civics running the GSR swap...

    Love to hear what you guys think.....
     
  2. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    <B>450 whp Motor Build Up

    This is going to be a $5,000 + Motor.... This car is getting a Show Quailty Paint job this month!!! I know theres motors out there for like $600- $700 B20's And I've priced a few of the newer interals I'll need...

    Here's What Im looking at let me know if this seems about right!!!

    B20 from the CRV Bored to 83mm

    10.1 pistions (I think they will be Eagle) (Lower compression for boosted applications right?)
    New Crank (For GSR)

    New H Beams

    Swap the Stock Head for a Type - R Head (There will be some head work needed from a machine shop to mount this up correct?) For the Vetc oil line
    Type R values, Springs, and Retainers

    Type R Stage 3 Cams

    Integra GSR intake Manifold

    GSR Turbo Exhaust Manifold

    AEM fuel Rail w/ regulator

    450cc Injectors

    Greddy T3/4 Turbo

    Apexi Boost Controler

    AEM Cam Gears

    GSR 5- speed tranny


    Please guys let me know if you have any other suggestions (for a Build up motor pushing into the 450 WHP Range!!!)

    I'll be running light boost most of the time so it wont be pulling that number all the time as this car is a daily drive for the most part.. But if I wanna run it i can crank the boost up and generate big horse power...
     
  3. NightCat

    NightCat New Member

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    I dont even know where to begin with this one...

    GSR Turbo Exhaust Manifold....wow..I never knew GSR's came turbo'd.

    and sweet dude! New Injectors, fuel rails and a FPR...and a stock fuel pump...:p

    ..now to scrap the sarcastic shit.

    If you got the money to do a good build, rock on man, here's what I do if I had the money..

    First off, I could do either an LS/VTEC or a CR-VTEC, I would definitely not waste my money on a B18C1 or C5. it just isn't worth the money.

    you can probably get a full C5 swap from passwordJDM for $4K'ish

    The engine might not be the best part of the swap though, the ITR's S80 w/ LSD transmission is by far the best FWD transmission for B series honda's on the market.

    it also has a lot stronger internals and higher flower components..but really, if you're gonna build a motor, you'll be doing that anyways.

    as for LS/VTEC and CR-VTEC, if you look at the stroke of VTEC engines, it's significantly shorter than non-VTEC engines so you can see how you'll make more power on an LS or CRV. The B20B is a nice motor dont get me wrong..but the fact that it came from a CRV would just annoy me lol.

    but hey, CR-VTEC will definitely produce some power.

    I've heard of up to 280whp on an All motor CR-VTEC.

    and of course by then, it's already built so it could handle large amounts of boost.

    if you want 450-500 whp, you'll probably want somethin around the GT25 or GT30 range.

    then quite nicely boost the shit out of it and get a damn good tune, HonData is alright, I prefer NepTune, but thats cause a shop local does it for pretty cheap.

    either way..good luck with the build man.
     
  4. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Thanks dude Thats why im pollin the guys on here!!

    The CR-Vetc Is a CRV B20 with a Vetc head (I believe)..

    But yea great point on the fuel pump (Wasn't Sure if the stocker would support the 460cc injectors....)

    Yea I will be working on this all winter so money wont be a really big thing..

    This is more for me to feel secure that yea I can do what I think I can, And two this is my first build-up & swap so it's also kind of a double check that I am thinking of everything!

    And I appreciate all the help and Advice!!!

    A turbo Exhaust manifold for the GSR (Thats what i meant)
     
  5. LsvtecEg6

    LsvtecEg6 New Member

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    Well first the stock bore on a b20 is 84mm. Second, i think you might want some kind of a turbo profile cam for running boost. and if you want 450whp you want better than type-r valve train. TRy skunk 2 or something. They're awesome. And for 450whp. get lower compression pistons then 10.1.
     
  6. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Compression

    What would you recommend for Compression for a Turbo motor?:confused:
     
  7. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Budget

    Well This winter I'd like to get the motor build up the bottom end (Lightly Turbo)

    Not get to crazy this year then over the winter nexter finish off the top end more aggressive cams, and valve train...

    Bigger turbo pushing more boost!!

    theres a couple MX-5 around where i live that i'd like to try to burn!!

    hehehe Nothing better than a Tuned up and boosted $20,000 used civic destroying a Brand new $45,000 Mazda!!! lol

    i think im going to back the hp down alittle that might be a bit more than i really need!!!!

    lol
    Thanks for all the Advice tho!
     
  8. LsvtecEg6

    LsvtecEg6 New Member

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    I agree. 300whp is also a good amount of power for the streets. I think you'd be happy with it.
     
  9. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    THanks Guys Done alittle more research on this lets clear a few things up on what i've resently seen. I do have a new Fuel Rail and Regulator now and I have plans for a new Pump the Walber (SP?) 255lphr is the one im specing and a set of 425cc injectors or in that range! now for the motor setup. Im looking a B20 from the CRV with the B18C1 head (From the GSR) I found a Stroker kit that for the B20 that with a B16 head got 8:1 compression. Im guessing this will be alittle closer to 9:1 with the B18c1 Head due to clearances. I think i will need to have the bottom end re-sleeved and then I'll add a Vetc kit for the GSR head. I'll need to run a GSR Water pump & Oil Pump. Im going to put a mild Turbo Cam in the Head with upgraded Valuetrain. Looking at Brain Crower parts. I'll be running a OBX polished Intake and GSR Turbo manifold for a T3/4 Garret turbo. A new intercooler design that flows CO2 threw it to cool the charge. And all will be controled by a Greddy E-management Piggy back fuel system MAnagement system

    Does anyone know what i'll be looking at in cost to get a GSR tranny re geared for a taller 4th and 5th gear and to get a LSD put in it?

    So guys does this setup sound about right? For my 97 Civic EX??
     
  10. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Okay heres what i set it up for let me know if this is wrong or right!
    zealautowerks.com
    Block: B20B
    Crank: B18B - B20B
    Bore: 84mm
    Stroke: 89mm
    Deck Height: 211.84mm
    Head: B18C
    CCV: 41.60
    Pistion JDM B18C1 P72-00
    Dome cc: 2.52
    COmp Height 30.05
    Connecting Rod: B16A
    Rod Length: 134.00mm
    Head Gasket: OEM 3 Layer
    Head Milled: 0
    Max RPM: 8000
    ELEVATION: 1223
    Boost: 15
    Static COmpression 9.08:1
    Effective COmpression 17.85:1
    Displacement: 1972.87 cc
    Rod Stroke Ratio: 1.51
    Pistion to Deck: .130
    MEan Pistion Speed: 1970 fps
    MAx Accleration 136367
    Is that about the right setup I heard i wanna run lower compression to compinsate the turbo
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  11. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    Looks like with this setup and a mild port job on the head i'll be turning around 445whp running a mid size turbo. I also need some info on how and what i need to do to a stock GSR 5-speed tranny to get the power to the pavement!
     
  12. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    When you say "get the tranny re-geared with a taller 4th and 5th" what exactly do you mean? Do you want shorter gears or longer gears? If you want longer gears then just use an LS transmission. If you want shorter gears and a factory LSD then look for a Type R transmission.

    The GS-R transmission is a good all-around choice though. The gearing's not to long but it's not to short either. And you should be fine with an essentially stock transmission as long as you get an after-market clutch that will support the amount of power you're making. As for the LSDs, just do some searching. Several companies offer them, plus you have the option of using a factory LSD from a B16 or Type R transmission.

    Oh, and one more thing, I'd skip the piggyback shit. Instead, get an ECU chipped and then get a real tune from somebody who knows what they're doing...
     
  13. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    I think im looking for a taller gear (More speed from it in 5th) I believe that is correct. I plan on installing a stage 2 - 3 clutch and light weight flywheel. To help get the power down to the pavement. I have a problem tho i live in a county in PA that requires emissions checks so i need to maintain all the stock sensors and have the computer manage them so i have no choice but to use a piggyback system!
     
  14. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    When I hear "taller" in reference to gearing, I think of longer gears, which are great for gas mileage, but not so much for acceleration. Shorter gears and a short final drive are much better for acceleration, but usually at the cost of some fuel economy. I don't know which direction you're wanting to go here. Either way though, the GS-R transmission is a good all-around choice. It's a nice compromise between the extremes of a short-geared B16 and Type R transmissions and the longer-geared LS gearboxes.

    As for the clutch, the manufacturers usually rate the stages for certain amounts of power, so you'll just need to look into it for whichever company's product you end up buying and see which one will match your power output. I'd probably wait until you build the motor and go to install it before you do the clutch though. A stage 2 or 3 clutch doesn't really make for a fun daily driver...
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  15. michilson

    michilson New Member

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    tranny

    Well from the info i have i'll be making dam near 450 whp with this motor setup on 15 psi and if i jump up into the 20 psi range over 500 whp i just dont wanna run out of top end gear if im pulling someone on the highway! i mean at some point yea it will stop running out but i wanna barry the needle before that happens!

    if you think a stock GSR gear will work for this or maybe make 5th just alittle taller for a little better fuel milage and to give me alittle better top end speed!

    Im not to worried about excelleration.
     
  16. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    You can put an LS fifth into it, or just get an LS transmission. I'd probably stick with the GS-R and swap out the fifth gear...
     
  17. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    Hey Brutal, Im not sure that the gear ratio chart I use is right. Would puttin a GSR final in an LS tranny pretty much give you a wide ratio GSR, or would it even be worth it?
     
  18. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    What exactly do you mean by "wide ratio GS-R"? Putting a GS-R fifth into an LS transmission will give you a shorter fifth gear, meaning you'll move through the RPMs faster and top out sooner in fifth...
     
  19. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    No, I was talkin about putin a GSR ring and pinion set in an LS tranny with all its other ratios unchanged. If the gear ratio chart I used was correct, first and second gear would be the same as GSR with slightly longer 3-5 gears. The end result would be something between a GSR and an LS. The term wide ratio was used to describe two different Ford top loader 4 speeds back in the day, and the concept is fitting here so that just what I called it lol.
     
  20. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Oh, you're right, you're right, my bad. I misread what you were saying. You're talking about a GS-R final drive. I thought you meant a GS-R fifth gear.

    But yes, you're correct. The LS and GS-R share the same first and second, and then the GS-R's gears get shorter from there. So yeah, if you used the GS-R's final drive in an LS gearbox, you'd probably end up with something between the two transmissions as a result...
     
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