College.....

[endlesszeal]

There were some interesting comments about it and some people saying they never went/quit and still make a good living.

It seems like every year, its starting to seem like a dumb and dumber investment, especially those in any field except medical and the shaky, "im getting a m.b.a." degree. The average college student with a B.S./B.A. is getting a measly $25k and many plan to go to graduate school.

I know many who dont even know what they want to do once they get a degree because there are no job opporunities except teach, even from a physics and mathematic major.

Whats even worst is they are constantly hiking up fees for books and registeration, aid isnt coming. I was on full-ride just 2 years ago when my college costed $16,000, but now its up to $20,000 with no added aid. And forget about parking, it was 150 but now its 300 for a freaking quarter. Why dont I work? I am, but average rent is 900 for a shat hole 2 bed 1 bath here. And for 3 bed 2 bath it goes anywhere from 1400-1900 a month. I can only work so much before it affects school work.


I personally, am attending a college and hope to be $100k+ in debit if I do get accepted and graduate from U.C. San Francisco Pharmacy Ph.D program.


Anyway, comment, flame, disagree, whatever. It's welcomed. And yah or Nay?

 

[reckedracing]

all depends on your career choice i think...

some people will make more going into full time employment right from high school than they would if they went to a 2 year, 4 year, or even 6 year school...

the person that enters the work force immediately, sees immediate $$$
the person that goes to school for a degree gets themselves into debt, then they may start off making higher $$$ after college, but they have to repay the debt...

it all comes down to how you want to spend your life making a living...
if you like hard work, cold/heat, getting up early, busting your ass all day, etc then don't go to college...

if you like heat in the winter, a/c in the summer, working with your mind instead of your body, and just having an "easier" life, then school is for you...

 

[chestercheeto48]

(setting down soap box)

I am a Tech. Ed. teacher in a high school and this is what I believe and tell my students when ever they ask me this question. I say that it really does not matter if you go on to a 4 year school or not. What truely matters is the fact that after you leave the halls of your high school you have a plan to receive more education. There are studies out there that show that people who are graduates from college are making less than their peers who persued training from tech schools, apprenticiships, certifications and the military. I honestly believe that you do not need college to be successful but you do need further education in order to attain today's white picket fence and 2.2 dogs and a nice stable of vehicles.

 

[endlesszeal]

i agrees it about career preference. but its just the market is so slim and so competitve now. i actually have a coworker who has a degree in history and literature but works right beside me as a customer rep. because she got laid off from work.

besides some of those hot, sore, workers making a bunch of dough, i.e. construction workers/owners.

it also seems like everyone that has a jobs needs to go to college again to get "re-certified" or what not..

either way, i think at least a 2 year at a j.c. is required. if not for the money, than for educational purposes. u learn a lot of stuff and become "more smart" = ).

 

[Bob Vila]

It all depends on your profession and how far you want to go.

Blue Collar:
College is not really necessary, however a technical or trade school to get the applicable experience or certifications looks better on a resume and will probably start you at more $$ an hour than someone who hasn't. It isn't necessary but it certainly helps.

White Collar:
While not necessary, experience is a must to even have a foot in the door. It is necessary to become an executive. Not necessarily a manager, but mid tier management and up it is a requirement in my company. I do not have my BS currently, however I am in the process of getting official Project Management Certification and then onto a Business mastery program through Univ. of Connecticut. I will eventually get my BA in Business in lieu of my BS I was going for as the market is completely flooded for developers and the like. I fell into the right place at the right time and have worked my ass off to get where I am at. It also helps to have the support you need from management one your foot is in the door and after you prove what skills and talents you bring to the table.

I am proud of myself thusfar in how far I have gotten in the corp world with no official degree. I do hiring for my project and it is not a requirement, although it does show employers that you can be dedicated enough to obtain the degree. It does NOT mean that you have the necessary qualifications to obtain the position though. Thats what all college kids think these days, I have a degree so automatically I am qualified. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. You gain qualifications from being book smart, AND having the experience to back up the knowledge....

 

[posol]

people who go to college and make 25k with their ba are just stupid.

they probably majored in a major thats useless... like English, art, music, education.

teachers don't make shit, all you can do with an english or art degree and make a living off it is, well, teach.

unless your DAMN good, and want to write books, there's no money in it. you have to do it for the LOVE of it.

money > love IMO.

love has gotten me no where.
money hasn't gotten me anywhere either, but its because i don't have any.

but anyway....

if you're half way done, stick it out. take internships. do work study.
JUST the degree and taking classes is, as you say, worthless.
entry-level positions are 1-3 years expereince. not 0.
you need to get out there in the field.

i too got lucky with my job... i had no degree and no real experience other than my tech schooling and a couple side jobs...
i worked my way up from the night shift bitch to a 1st shift developer... and now with just about 3 years under my belt, i can go just about anywhere now who wants the typical "BA/BS in related field or 2-5 yrs expeirnece" for the IT jobs.

fact is, college grads average more $ in their life time.

it just takes a while to pay off the loans sometimes.... but in 10 years, when those are all gone, you'll come out on top.

 

[Celerity]

AT the gas company I worked for this year, something interesting happened:

Two people. Both intelligent, and upwardly mobile. One had been with the company for 10 years and was THE technical lead. The director LOVED this guy. The other, was a 6 year employee who had written a ground-breaking software to run pipeline valves. The latter became the Manager of everyone in IT - Except for the first guy. The First guy was the golden child, and by the director's word, could NOT be told what to do. He was the director's right hand man.

Well, soon the position for Director comes up. And the Director says "I'm giving this to (10 year) guy." Management (Executives) said "No, we're giving the position to (6 year guy) because (10 year guy) lacks a degree"

The degree that 6 year guy had ? Computer science degree, 4 years. the 10 Year guy knew 100x what the other guy knew, and was respected throughout the company as "The" guy to get the job. In the end, he didn't get it because he lacked the degree.

Here is my personal advice, and the first two lines will make more sense as you read down:

1) Don't have kids. Keep reading.

2) Don't have a wife. Either married or not (I'm not married, but I have a "wife")

3) Get into the sort of job that makes money. If I.T. isn't your thing, see if you can get an internship and start off at something that I want to do.
4) When you're AT that job, doing it for a while, make up your mind if it's REALLY want you want to do. Then...

5) Go to school THEN. You'll be part time, and you'll need 6 years to get a 4 year degree - But at least you're doing it while being in the field. Coursework will go by quickly, and you'll actually get the meat of the degree. And, if you want to change careers - Then no sweat ! You can still live a life that can support you going into another field (Even if you make $12 and hour doing so)

6) THEN get a wife, and a kid. If you have a kid and wife first, then you're too taxed to really move on. I mean, You CAN, but it's difficult, and it's 100x scarier to change jobs when you have a family.

-> Steve

I didn't follow these - I got the wife (No kid) and lemme tell you that it's tough even having just THAT and making a risky move into another field.

 

[phyregod]

Its funny.. My brother didn't finish high school. He worked shitty jobs like construction and flooring. He cut his hand open for the 9837204785th time, and went to lunch. He went home. He told his wife that he wasn't ever going to cut his hand again. He was sick of manual labor. She was supportive..

A few days later he got a call from a car stealership, and an interview. He kicked the interview's ass and got the job, selling cars. He worked his way up to top salesman. The other dealerships started calling him.. one even went as far as to put his name on the biggest office they had, all new furniture, pimp ass office, and called him over to take a look. He turned it down. He held out for the right oppertunity. Now he makes 350k a year and lives in a nice house. He opens dealerships all over new mexico. He'll open the dealership, train the staff, get it going, and go on to the next dealership. He still out-sells everyone at his given dealership even though he is not required to sell vehicles. He has a talent, and he exploits the hell out of it.

Hell, I sent my wife (was girlfriend at the time) to him to buy a car. He sold her the car. He sold her sister a car. He sold her mom a car. He sold her dad a car. No shit. Everyone he comes in contact with wants to buy cars.. I'm telling you, he is talented.

You just have to find what you do best. It may take a while. It may require an education. It may not. You just have to find your talent.


Me, on the other hand.. I'm stuck as a freaking bail bondsman making crappy wages. I didn't set out to do this, it found me. I tried to go military but my hearing is fucked up, so I cant. I'm a fucking super genious (157 IQ) and I'm stuck hunting people and making bail bonds. Bitching at people to come and pay for their bail. Everything I'm interested in (engineering, archetecture, etc) requires 245987 years of school, and I just don't have the patience to go through that.

Still trying to figure out the work-life myself. I need to find a job where they pay you to come up with ideas. A think tank of sorts. A product developer for a toy company like nerf would rock ass. I have hundreds of inventions in a book.. and slowly, one by one, I'm watching them come out on the market. Someone else is making the money that I would have had.. had I the patience to go to school, and the money to get patents.

Go freakin figure.

 

[tab]

Go to school.

Start off at JC and get your AA. It's easy, you'll make friends while getting smarter. Hopefully, it'll help you figure out what you want to do with your life. Shoot high, don't settle. I wasted years just figuring out what I like to do, simply because it "paid the bills".

Tech jobs are great, and some people do quite well. I don't want to sit at a computer every day, although I know I could handle it.

Blue collar is fine, but like it is said, your back is a limited quantity. If you want to break your back and work in the heat/cold, then more power to you.

If given the choice, back in college, I would have gone a totally different direction. There is a lot of money in Architechture, Civil Engineering, and a great one, Management. People go to school to learn how to tell people what to do.

Working for a municipality, I can tell you that those stupid management and civil engineering degrees are invaluable. These people make BANK, even in my small town, and they don't do JACK SHIT!!!

If all else fails, you've enjoyed 2-6 years of drinking, chasing pussy, and meeting lifelong buddies(or bishes). On a sidenote. Don't settle for a girl that won't satisfy your *ahem* needs whenever you want. There are plenty of bishes that will do whatever you want on a regular basis.

Regular great sex=Much happier at any job or at home. I'd shovel shit after a blow job and my cup of coffee in the morning. DON'T SETTLE.

 

[tab]

Originally posted by phyregod@Sep 9 2005, 02:06 PM
Everything I'm interested in (engineering, archetecture, etc) requires 245987 years of school, and I just don't have the patience to go through that.

[post=551969]Quoted post[/post]​

HA, I was typing while you were posting!!!!!

Go back man.......I'm 30, and trust me, that's still not too old.
157 IQ chasing bonds is a waste. Take a fucking chance, you'll be glad you did.

 

[Celerity]

I choose a different outlook at work and money, and my idea of success. I have an IQ of 173 and I still drive pizzas when I can. I'm looking for work in I.T. Management, but it _is_ tougher at this level than it was at lower levels. Every job I've ever had has required college, and I got it without the college. Now I'm at a level where they are really looking for college. The companies that are answering me are all bringing "Great job... here is the catch" type jobs, or crazy ass dot-com leftovers (Like the one I had yesterday... head of networking group.. "But, there is no one in the networking group, so you're head of no one) and we had our meeting inside of a 50's style DINER inside of the office.)

 

[endlesszeal]

actually engineering takes around 7-8 years. nowadays, thats almost norm for college. 4-5 for b.s. and 2-4 for masters. engineers make good money, starting at around 50-60, but my physics teacher said after that its pretty much pointless because when u earn ur ph.d. no one is going to hire because ur "over-qualified" and require $100+ wages unless u got mad skills.

i really enjoy that chemistry stuff, maybe someday ill invent some kind of synthetic carbon hydrogen crystalline that its 100x strong than carbon fiber but weighs only 5 times as much as hydrogen..... that ull be getting the "endlesszeal" hoods and not painting it.

 

[phyregod]

Chemistry.. I HATED chemistry. My brain just doesn't function that way..

But Physics.. even Advanced physics is cake.

My brain is weird.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

If you want to go into engineering, just go out into the workplace after your Undergrad. If you go on to get a masters, you'll have trouble getting a job because you're both a couple years behind and you're overqualified. I'm in engineering at UMN and I know people that can't get jobs after their masters because of these reasons.

Unless of course you want to end up teaching, then you can do whatever.

 

[StealthMode]

I'm going to school at Johnson and Wales University, and for almost $20k a year, I know it'll be worth it. Why? Because my school has job placement starting at mid management AT LEAST. I'm going into International Business. Eventually, I'm going to own my own international company and travel the world whenever I feel like it. Sure it's hectic being in school. At the moment, I don't even know if I'll be able to keep my job since I have to take the bus to school and back home. But I'm looking forward to the future and to me, that's all that counts.

 

[Airjockie]

<--personal experiance.

I got out of HS, and went in the AF...stayed there for a few years, then got kicked out. Floated around in Japan, doing crazy jobs. Married into money, nd the wife wanted me to get an education. Did 2+years in ERAU, and the college accepted my military training, and I was just a few classes away from an AS degree. Had a DUI, so I lost all money for college. First job was minimum wage, but that boss said that if I had the degree he would pay me tripple.

Swapped jobs many times...getting more money at each job...still not have not gone back to school...but it's free where I work....I'm too busy or too LAZY to go back. But I sitting at 80K a year......BUT I HAVE TO WORK MY ASS OFF TO MAKE IT!!!!.....then again...if I had the degree's...I would be stuff behind a desk all day...so screw that. Working on aircraft and fixing them is fun, it's what I do best, and I would get ass bunions if I had a desk job.

The more money would be nice...but I wouldn't be happy....go figuar... :unsure:

in about a year or so...the DUI will be off my record...and I can get back into AvTech/Flight...but still no huge commercial airline would hire me for a pilots position....

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Sep 9 2005, 11:42 AM-->

people who go to college and make 25k with their ba are just stupid.

if you're half way done, stick it out. take internships. do work study.
JUST the degree and taking classes is, as you say, worthless.
entry-level positions are 1-3 years expereince. not 0.
you need to get out there in the field.

[post=551942]Quoted post[/post]​

on the first and I disgree 100% on the second.

Even teachers make around 35k a year straight out of school, and that's average pay. Quite a few districts will pay you over 40k a year to be a high school teacher. If this is the route you plan to take, just make absolutely sure that you get your teacher's certificate before you graduate. Alternative certification programs really suck- especially in Houston, TX.

On needing experience for an entry level position, that's a flat out no. Entry level is entry level- that's it. If you have a bit of experience, you have an edge over someone who doesn't- but it's not a make or break item when you're interviewing for your first job out of college. Entry level positions look for competency in school, technical proficiency to do the job you're applying for, and how well you mesh with the culture in the company. Companies know that entry level employees are investments- so you just have to show them in the interview that you're worth their time and money to teach/train.

Originally posted by phyregod@Sep 9 2005, 01:06 PM
You just have to find what you do best. It may take a while. It may require an education. It may not. You just have to find your talent.

[post=551969]Quoted post[/post]​

Find out what you want to do, then plan from there. Some careers require a degree, some don't.

Originally posted by endlesszeal@Sep 9 2005, 02:35 PM
actually engineering takes around 7-8 years. nowadays, thats almost norm for college. 4-5 for b.s. and 2-4 for masters. engineers make good money, starting at around 50-60, but my physics teacher said after that its pretty much pointless because when u earn ur ph.d. no one is going to hire because ur "over-qualified" and require $100+ wages unless u got mad skills.

[post=552020]Quoted post[/post]​

Disagree somewhat. A BS engineering degree is all you need to get a good job. An MS helps, but isn't necessary. It's a stepping stone to a higher level position. If you're cut out for engineering, you should be able to wrap up a BS degree without too much difficulty in 4 years, 5 max.

On the PhD- that's sooooooo true. Not many companies want to pay for a PhD to do normal work- it's all research and development or professor positions at universities. Quite a few PhD engineers interview for non-PhD positions and just don't disclose that they hold a doctorate level degree.

Citizen_Insane@Sep 9 2005, 02:56 PM
If you want to go into engineering, just go out into the workplace after your Undergrad. If you go on to get a masters, you'll have trouble getting a job because you're both a couple years behind and you're overqualified. I'm in engineering at UMN and I know people that can't get jobs after their masters because of these reasons.

[post=552033]Quoted post[/post]​

Nope. MS is still workforce, PhD is teaching/research. MS engineering degrees are still in very high demand, even without work experience. You start off at a higher pay scale, and you're still considered "entry level", but since you carry a good bit more technical expertise, you'll be expected to do more.

The company I work for has said many times that "even if we hire every single engineer that graduates, there won't be enough to satisfy our needs."

 

[Prowler]

Originally posted by endlesszeal@Sep 9 2005, 10:50 AM
It seems like every year, its starting to seem like a dumb and dumber investment, especially those in any field except medical and the shaky, "im getting a m.b.a." degree. The average college student with a B.S./B.A. is getting a measly $25k and many plan to go to graduate school.

Ok, here's my story. I did quite well in high school. 3.81 GPA with many honors classes, etc. But I also took a Cisco Networking while in high school. This got my interest into IT stuff.
I graduated and worked near minimum wage for a year, selling office supplies. I saved a lot of this money so I could move out of state and go to college. I went to a state college in Idaho and started an Information Systems Analysis course. My the end of the first year, I was completely sick of college. I had no life between 15 credits (which is literally twice the hour attendance requirements than academic degrees) and working near full time at, again, near minimum wage.
So I finished my first year. I had my A+, Net+, MCP, and knowledge on a lot of other things. I decided, if I can find a steady job with this, I'll quit college and try to work my way up in a company. If not, I'll go back to college. So I gave it 3 months. In the second month of my summer break, I got the biggest break of my life. Contracted to work with ExxonMobil.
So I went to work. Because of my outstanding public speaking ability and interview skills, I beat many many others who were interviewed and had degrees. I knew my stuff, did good when I was in college (3.9 GPA), and followed up.
Now I'm making more than your typical graduate with a BA, am in charge of a team coming out of state for a project at the refinery I work at, have full benefits, 3 weeks paid vacation a year, an additional 7 paid holidays, and am working towards getting hired full on with ExxonMobil. Which would mean, that by the time I'm 50, I'm retired and will have a HUGE payout then (enough to live off and not work again).
So there you have it. I worked hard with what I did, but I don't have a college degree. Yet I'm working amongst HUNDREDS of people at the refinery with big college degrees, yet when I'm there age I'll be making more, doing less, and be closer to retirement. There's over a 10 year gap between me and the youngest ExxonMobil employee. Also, to have full network access and room access to anything with the LARGEST oil refining company in the world, well, that's pretty big.

 

[BigJ]

This is what I plan on doing.

I'm going to college for a degree in Construction Management. I worked semi-hard in highschool, didn't get into the right school, but I'm transfering after this year to it.

My old man has a small siding company. Does quite well for himself, but still works for someone else(the developer). When I'm done with college, have more of a know how in the industry we're going to start our own custom house company.

It takes balls, and a lot of cash to put down, but a typical Construction Manager, or Builder they call em in the 'bizz, brings in roughly 80-100k working forsomeone else if they're worth it. If not, more like 60-70k. If they own their own company, anywhere from 100k to a million if they're well established.


My dad did a house recently for a 29 year old dude with the same degree I'm going after. The house cost 500k before they started renovating, bull dozed it, put another 500k into it, and sold it for 1.5million in 6 months. The 29 year old that put the 500k into it initially doubled his money in 6 months.

Currently I'm working for Lowe's just trying to learn materials and such about building stuff. At the end of this year, when I move back home, I'm going to probably start working for one of my dad's builder's and do that for the last three years of college. It'll be grunt work, but I'll learn almost every aspect of how a house gets put up from just the initial bull doze to the showcase finish. I'm not a dreamer on shit, and actually am quite pessimistic about some stuff, but I make goals and I extraordinarily accomplish them.

 

[jeffie7]

Money is what you make of it. I feel that anyone can make great money IF they are a great worker. Keep in mind most people think they are a great worker....

I have no doubt that anywhere I end up I can make good money becuase of the way I work. I've always been a hands on person and to this day still have NO SCHOOLING whatsoever. as you guys can tell from my wonderful grammar.=)

I've never spent one day in school in my whole life. The closest thing I had to school was my drivers ed class, then after that when I took my GED test just last year.

My dad has something like 4 degrees my brothers are both out of college, one makes great money in computers the other brother graduated with a 4.0 GPA and flys F15s and makes jack shit pay wise. thanks to the USAF however free places to live helps out a lot.

I'm the black sheep. Ive always been the bum of the family and have always done my own thing regarding what my parents would have liked me to do.

I started working with horses when I was 16, left that job for work in the food biz. I started waiting tables at the age of 17 I also told my boss that I wanted to learn everything from washing dishes to being the head grill chef. Once again being the hands on person that I am I picked everything up super fast.

At the age of 20 I was taking home more money then police officers (with less then 5 years under their belt) make before taxes (reason why I droped the police idea) and at the age of 22 I clear 60K (before taxes) and that # should go up shortly. My take home over the summer was around $3800 after tax, that has gone down some due to school going back the day time sales have droped some, but it will pick back up in about 2 months My next goal is to clear $4000 a month before I turn 23.

Do I regret not going to school? HELL NO. If I figure out something other then music that I would like to do I will go back to school and get some type of paper ( I mean degree) saying I know my shit. if not I'll just stick with the hands on training.

Is college worth going to? YES if you go for the right reasons, if you're not sure what you want to do then you should just hang out and try to feel life out a bit, you'll figure it out sooner or later.