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True coilovers beat GC koni setups any day
Originally posted by asmallsol+-->i am here to convice you they are not. those who don't care about damper adjustment, are typically those who don't race. dampening adjustment is wonderful if you race a daily driver, because you can be comfortable on the street, and stiff on the track. but as long as the spring and damening stiffness are matched up, they can perform just fine. as you said, tein does do this very nicely; however, let us look at the spring rates:asmallsol) said:Your statement about the tein basics is kinda BS. They are actually very nice setups for those who dont care about damper adjustment.
Originally posted by asmallsol+-->wrong. the ha has been discontinued. i've never heard of the hrs, and they are not listed on their website: meaning they never existed, or have also been discontinued.asmallsol) said:The springs rates are the same as the HA's, SS's, and the HR's.
basic for eg: 392F / 168R <- wow that's like ... stock
flex for eg: 504F / 224R
ss for eg: 392F / 168R you got that one right
ra for eg: 783F / 559R now thats damn nice, as i said earlier
that's all that is listed on their site. (except the n1 and a model in development)
just for the hell of it:
basic for ek: 448F / 224R
flex for ek: 504F / 280R
hg for ek: 364F / 129R
ht for ek: 1119F / 448R
ra for ek: 783F / 559R
re for ek: 783F / 559R
rs for ek: 783F / 559R
ss for ek: 448F / 224R
Originally posted by asmallsol
The Basics are properly valved for their spring rates
of course they are. every semi-respectable manufacturer does this. but look at those spring rates! put a set of basics on and go autox, and that thing will plow so bad. the most you can change them to is + or - 2kg/mm without paying $75 per damper to have them revalved.
why do they do this? i emailed tein, and got a copy and paste response that was mostly bs. here it is:
Originally posted by tein
When we perform the R&D testing, we measure the wheel travel, perform a corner balance on all four corners to get the true weight of a stock
vehicle, and determine what kind of suspension design the vehicle has (ex.
double wish bone, multilink suspension, or a true strut style suspension).
When the prototype damper in produced, we install it on the vehicle to test
proper fitment, insure it has the enough suspension travel, damping force
and has the right spring rates. The vehicle is then driven on multiple test
drives to ensure proper ride comfort and performance. When the R&D
department feel's they have designed a coilover kit with enough suspension
travel, damping force and has the right spring rates without sacrificing
that much ride quality, Tein Japan will then take this data and start mass
producing the coilover kit. The reason why we do the R&D testing this way is
to insure the best performance in a coilover kit. One piece of important
information that most consumers forget is the damping force of the shock. We
produce the springs to match the shocks to ensure proper spring control.
TEIN takes a lot of pride and years of experience in all of the products we
manufacture.
yay that's wonderful. but it's mostly a lie actually, believe it or not. i looked into it more deeply, and was informed that they acutally did in fact do the R&D over in japan a few years ago. the driving style, and typical suspension setup method in japan is dramatically different than it is over here. they run hugely front biased spring rates, some as crazy as a 22k front / 6k rear. however, they will run with -3.5 front camber, -.5 rear, toe out in the rear, 225-45/16 in the front, 195-55/15 in the back, and a 26mm rear swaybar. also, they tend to trail brake late into the corners, and actually sometimes take different lines.
a little different than what us guys over here have in mind isn't it? why? we discussed this on another forum, and pretty much came up empty. but the consensus was it pretty much boils down to traditions and schooling methods; also, their tracks over there are much smoother and more perfect. also, feel free to take a look at the spring rates available for other JDM coilover setups. the front bias is commonplace.
so unless you're planning on setting up your car and driving it like they do, tein really is not that good of a choice, because of the front biased springs. but if you for some reason desire an understeering car, go for it.
Originally posted by asmallsol
and overall, tein makes very nice suspension for the money. If you look at buying comprable JIC, look at spending over a thousand.
i can vouch for their dampers - they are pretty nice, i won't lie. but the spring rates are not good for any person who intends to autox or road race, with the traditional us style setup and driving techniques. you certainly want more of a rear bias coming from your spring rates. about jic, i have 0 experience with them, so i can't comment.
asmallsol@
True coilovers beat GC koni setups anyday
i honestly laughed out loud at this claim, because it seriously shows your lack of knowlege and experience with either setup. do you know what a koni shock with a coilover sleeve on it is? koni makes better shocks than tein, and you get custom rates from eibach (gc=eibach, who actually makes all coil springs and valvesprings for usdm companies fyi). with custom rates, you pick how you want your car to be setup, and are not locked into outrageously soft and front biased out of the box rates like 392F / 168R.
if you'd like, talk to vtecvoodo on ht about tein basics; he knows all about springs, and can tell you about the basics, and what happens when you put a tein spring on a shock dyno. he actually refused to sell them to people, because they are not worth the price tag. then ask some jdm bling show guys who don't race about teins.
i have had both setups, i got the koni gcs from a friend with 200F / 300R, and it was nice, a little on the soft side; but i grew tired of it, got drunk, and wanted to try these teins out to see what all the fuss was about. i purchased a set of the ss of someone having rates of 448F / 224R. the car did not handle as well, and understeer was a problem. but then a comptech rear anti-sway / tie bar fixed that up pretty nicely. now it's close to neutral, but a little unpredictable at times. i will soon be selling the ss to go back to the koni / gc with rates somewhere around 500F / 650R.
UDT
yeah that fool is a numb nut to suggest GC over either of the two i had up there. we run JIC's on my moms accord, put um on a G pad and i would put money down any day on the accord over another honda with some GC set up.
i think the problem is, you fail to realize that there is a lot more to suspension tuning than just buying expensive stuff. especially when you can get a better setup for less money. but whatever, i'm just a numb nut. suit yourself.
Originally posted by UDT@Mar 7 2004, 07:40 PM
Still looking for input on the H&R cup kit though <_<
Originally posted by UDT@Mar 7 2004, 06:40 PM
Still looking for input on the H&R cup kit though <_<
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Mar 8 2004, 07:26 AM
fuck tien.
I hate my ha's more and more everyday, and the car hasn't seen pavement since october. lol
i'm thnking about getting a set of the Sections like I got for the nissan for the sol as well.
Originally posted by that link
"When buying shocks, especially lately, reputation is more important than hype," explains Jay Morris. "Many companies have become aware of the demand for quality suspension components and have thrown their hats into the ring with hastily-developed shocks."
"Paradoxically, high-quality companies are left at the bus stop regarding new customer perception (Bilstein). Even then, there are so many inexperienced 'experts' in the Internet chat rooms that a lot of misinformation is being repeated as gospel. Try to get an opinion from someone who has owned more than one shock."