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High octane Loses power

Discussion in 'General Tech and Maintenance' started by asmallsol, Jul 13, 2003.

  1. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    Read this on teamintegra.net and since I can not link them (pointless because you must be a member to view) so I ended up just quoteing it.

     
  2. JDMilan

    JDMilan Senior Member

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    Well I run 93 and will always run 93, when I go to the track I dump in a little amount of the 100. Honda motors are pretty high compression motors from the factory though as opposed to most other cars so in that case I think it's fine.


    Milan
     
  3. Capt. Orygun

    Capt. Orygun Win the Day

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    so basically your saying you should run the correct octane called for by your engine? Boy, and people call me Captin Obvious

    :lol:
     
  4. jeffie7

    jeffie7 Wrong Whole! VIP

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    I ran 87 in my B16 everyday till I went turbo
    never had any problems
     
  5. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    Yes that is exactly what I am saying (as is this) If you have a b16a2 and honda says to put 91 in there, put 91 but if you have a d16z6, 91 octane will do jack crap. Same thing if you have a b16a2 and normally you run 91 but on a track day, you run 100 octane, your just wasting your money.
     
  6. sportlinecrx

    sportlinecrx Banned

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    91 octane > my D15 :unsure:
     
  7. JDMSpecAccordSir-T

    JDMSpecAccordSir-T Member

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    In Japan where all Hondas are born they use 100+ octane from the pump (thats all they use) so the Honda engineers anticipated this and tuned the ECU accordingly. That being said i dont think USDM motors and ECU's were designed to use 100+ octane since they dont allow that in the US on the road for pollution reasons (i think!?).

    The JDM motors and ECU's were designed to use 100+ octane (higher compression, more advanced timing,etc) and they should respond better to higher octane. My car (JDM Accord SiR-T) is like Jekyll and Hyde when i use 104 compared to the 93 pump gas i use regularly. And all the Turbo's (Skylines, Evo's, Impreza's, Soarer's etc, etc) and Hondas alike all say the same thing when they use 104 and they all are JDM.

    Im just throwing this in also but certain JDM turbo cars that are used to running on 100+ octane are suddenly switched over to 93, the ECU's knock sensor detect the inferior octane and then lower the boost to compensate for the less knock resistant fuel. The engine therefore produces less power than before. I've heard that you have to disconnect the battery to allow the ECU to reset and to recognize the higher octane fuel when you switch back.

    Just adding my 0.02 cents.
     
  8. dcsports413

    dcsports413 Senior Member

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    I belive you are right JDMSpec...all usdm dohc vtec motors call for 93 octane gas from the factory. To gain power from a higher octane gas, the ecu and timing must be adjusted accordingly.
     
  9. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    But also relize that alot of people when doing swaps dont use the JDM ECU which is designed for the high octane because the JDM ecu also limits everything at 112mph or some crazy speed.
     
  10. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    also the JDM motors have slightly higher CR.
     
  11. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    so what octane does honda call for on the b18c1? or any other USDM DOHC VTEC engines for that matter?
     
  12. JDMilan

    JDMilan Senior Member

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    I always assumed the minimum was 91?


    hey, what was the actual whp loss on that dino, i can't seem to visually see it.



    Milan
     
  13. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    looks like 5hp and tq
     
  14. odnet

    odnet Member

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    My experience with Hondas, don't use 10% Alcohol (Ethanol Fuels).

    Safe Stock Gas Performance
    8.1:1 to 9.6:1, max rev < 6300 - 86 Octane
    9.6:1 to 10.1:1, max rev < 6300 - 87 Octane
    8.1:1 to 9.6:1, max rev < 7300 - 87 Octane
    9.6:1 to 11.0:1, max rev < 9300 - 90.5 Octane (91 to be safe)

    The S2000 is a high rev, high compression motor, and all honda asks for 240hp 4 banger is 91, so why on earth would Honda require a motor like in most civics and accords (which are economy vehicles!!!) to use anything greater than 87? GSR and ITR are different stories and their valvetrain and pistons show you that.

    Now until our B series get advanced timing, high comp pistons, and redline at 9000, or until we have a performance package that brings crank hp to 240, we have nothing to worry about.

    Octane booster not required and not recommended in cars with headers and an exhaust. make something significant internally, then it's a different story. nuff said.

    EDIT: But! SCC did a 350Z test and upped the octane on a stock car and saw same performance in the low end but the top end pulled 1-2hp.
     
  15. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    There is a LOT more to it than just compression and engine speed.
     
  16. jdmcrx89

    jdmcrx89 Senior Member

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    i always use the highest grade octane 91-93.5 , i like to baby my car with stuff like that, and i only use one fuel, and that is amoco fuels. untill i take my car to the dyno to see it for myself, i will continue to use the best legal octane there is.
     
  17. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    dude it's only like 20cents more a gallon for high octance. Thats 2$ per tank. My attitude is that I'd rather spend the extra 2$ and be sure I have the best gas.
     
  18. brc80

    brc80 Senior Member

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  19. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    but what they're saying is it *isn't* the best gas for our applications.
     
  20. sportlinecrx

    sportlinecrx Banned

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    bottom line is....higher octane will help ONLY if your car needs it because it misfires/preignites with lower octane. higher octane gas has no power-enhancing effect in itself.

    when u advance yor timing, you are effectively causing some misfire, so using high octane with advanced timing MIGHT give u some kind of extra pep, but i am not sure. honda engines' timing is computer controlled.

    in a nutshell: octane is a gasoline's ANTI-KNOCK rating. has nothing to do with adding power.
     
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