Hondata
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honestly, i think 160 whp would be an honest guess.
stock, figure 135ish.
skunk stage 2 cams are good for like 10-12 whp
145
bolt ons, another 5-10
bolts ons with cams = better flow = more gain = +5
fine tuning, 5-10 tops?
so, 160-165 to me, is where you're at with that dude.
b16s suck
all motor sucks
buy a turbo
stock, figure 135ish.
skunk stage 2 cams are good for like 10-12 whp
145
bolt ons, another 5-10
bolts ons with cams = better flow = more gain = +5
fine tuning, 5-10 tops?
so, 160-165 to me, is where you're at with that dude.
b16s suck
all motor sucks
buy a turbo
I have a turbo, but it sucks. YOU said so yourself. Maybe I should get the edelbrock turbo kit and then maybe you'll give me a straight fucking answer on what ECU I need to tune the fucker.
Anyway....I've NEVER seen a 99-00 Si dyno stock below 140 wheel hp...
This is going to sound like ricer shit, but here's what I think I'm going to gain when it's all done.
manifold=3-5
intake=5
catback=10-15
straight thru pipe for cat/racing cat=10?
header=5-10
cams=at least 15 hp when tuned with whatever the fuck ecu I need for tuning which is what I'm asking about...
Lowest figure, I'll gain what? 48 hp with that shit? Sound about right? I don't know.
Anyway....I've NEVER seen a 99-00 Si dyno stock below 140 wheel hp...
This is going to sound like ricer shit, but here's what I think I'm going to gain when it's all done.
manifold=3-5
intake=5
catback=10-15
straight thru pipe for cat/racing cat=10?
header=5-10
cams=at least 15 hp when tuned with whatever the fuck ecu I need for tuning which is what I'm asking about...
Lowest figure, I'll gain what? 48 hp with that shit? Sound about right? I don't know.
dohch22a4
Senior Member
James, save your money and buy the JG/Edelbrock kit and combine it with Hondata tuning. Seriously, that kit fucking owns. it comes with, IMO the best turbo around, the Garret GT28RS. aka: Disco Potato. It doesn't make insane high end power, but it is at full boost by 2500 rpm, makes huge power through the midrange and all the way to redline, and is responsive as can be. Virtually no lag and it's VERY high quality. Remember, dude, all motor is the most expensive way to go slow.
nevermind.
fuck it all. after i put the intake on i'm not going to mod it at fucking all.
The whole fucking reason I want to stay NA was to get it down to a 14.199 so I could laugh my ass off at Mustang GTs while I'm pulling along side them without any sort of forced infuckingduction.
Fuck it all. Jesus H Christ.
fuck it all. after i put the intake on i'm not going to mod it at fucking all.
The whole fucking reason I want to stay NA was to get it down to a 14.199 so I could laugh my ass off at Mustang GTs while I'm pulling along side them without any sort of forced infuckingduction.
Fuck it all. Jesus H Christ.
even starting at 140...
the problem is, you're adding it up piece by piece, instead of as a system.
i've NEVER seen a cat back produce more than 3 whp on a dyno. ever.
but when you get it with the intake, the header, the cat, and all that, you create a system, that can give you 10- but not 10 from each.
so, figure, your breathing system i/im/h/c/e is good for 10-15
and the cams are good for 10-15
tuning doesn't add power really... it mainly lets your parts work better, and i assumed the tuned factor in the above numbers.
140+ 20 = 160 for a low number
and 140 + 30 = 170 for a high number
that's my guess.
and i did give you a straight answer on what ecu to use. you're stock one.
its everyone else whos not.
the problem is, you're adding it up piece by piece, instead of as a system.
i've NEVER seen a cat back produce more than 3 whp on a dyno. ever.
but when you get it with the intake, the header, the cat, and all that, you create a system, that can give you 10- but not 10 from each.
so, figure, your breathing system i/im/h/c/e is good for 10-15
and the cams are good for 10-15
tuning doesn't add power really... it mainly lets your parts work better, and i assumed the tuned factor in the above numbers.
140+ 20 = 160 for a low number
and 140 + 30 = 170 for a high number
that's my guess.
and i did give you a straight answer on what ecu to use. you're stock one.
its everyone else whos not.
Originally posted by 90 accord@Apr 13 2004, 03:37 AM
ignore b, i always do
do whatever you fucking want, i really don't give 1/4 of a shit.
but you're not going to make 23123 hp out f a b16 with bolt ons, even if you used rick james's dick to tune it.
NA power is expensive. Really expensive. You *can* do it, but you also need to realize that any turbo kit will be cheap in comparison to NA power. If your goal is to pull on stock mustangs w/o any forced induction, I would personally recommend:
1. Displacement. FUCK B16s!!! If you're gonna fight with a 302 or 351 stang NA, play by stang rules. THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. GSR, LS/Vtec or CRVtec would all put you in a much better place.
2. Cams. FUCK JUNK2!!! I'd rather stick a Skunk2 cam up my ass unlubricated than in my car. Junk2 = the most hyped overpriced NA cam there is, IMHO. Toda B or C or RM/EF1 M22-M24e depending on your goals. And don't even get me started on Skunk2 valvetrain... A good friend of mine's click all used Sk2 valvetrain on their Euro ITR motors - 5/6 motors is now dead <1.5 years later from valvetrain failure. Plus the premature wear on retainers, plus, plus, plus... Valvetrain really is key because being able to rev a honda motor is also one of its real strengths.
3. Compression. NA power = high compression. There isn't another polite way to say it. You can run 12.5:1 piston compression on pump gas without headwork - I know because I tuned fucker's car. If you're limited to 91, you probably want to stay below 12. In any case, higher compression will help you make up the 5.0 - (2.0/1.8/1.6) difference in torque without having to spin the motor to 15,000rpm.
4. Airflow. Power comes from combustion. Combustion requires air. Put more air in, get more power out. Sound simple? ha! All big numbers NA cars have serious headwork done to them. The only exception I could see to this are the DC5R motors that flow 280CFM/port from the factory. The EF1/RM 200WHP B16 may have had an essentially stock bottom end, but it had *amazing* portwork. If you forget for a minute that airflow is what makes your power with a NA setup, you are a fool. The portwork will break the bank, but it is also where the real power is to be found, IMHO.
5. Pumping. The motor is essentially an air pump. If you do things to help it pump air more effectively, you're going to make more power. This would not be limited to: 2.5"/3" exhaust, ***SCAVENGING HEADER***, well designed plenu intake, ITBs
6. Tuning. You're going to spend days, if not weeks tuning a high power NA motor. If you switch to a ITB setup, double that. Serious portwork will help you make the serious power, but it also totally reshapes your VE curves, requiring you to completely retune the car even if you had kept the same cams. Change the cams AND do headwork while upping the compression and you might as well start over. Switch to ITBs and you'll probably be in the realm of a DFI7 or Motec, and even further lost. Point being: lots of time to get it right child.
So, does that expensive turbo kit sound any cheaper yet?
1. Displacement. FUCK B16s!!! If you're gonna fight with a 302 or 351 stang NA, play by stang rules. THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. GSR, LS/Vtec or CRVtec would all put you in a much better place.
2. Cams. FUCK JUNK2!!! I'd rather stick a Skunk2 cam up my ass unlubricated than in my car. Junk2 = the most hyped overpriced NA cam there is, IMHO. Toda B or C or RM/EF1 M22-M24e depending on your goals. And don't even get me started on Skunk2 valvetrain... A good friend of mine's click all used Sk2 valvetrain on their Euro ITR motors - 5/6 motors is now dead <1.5 years later from valvetrain failure. Plus the premature wear on retainers, plus, plus, plus... Valvetrain really is key because being able to rev a honda motor is also one of its real strengths.
3. Compression. NA power = high compression. There isn't another polite way to say it. You can run 12.5:1 piston compression on pump gas without headwork - I know because I tuned fucker's car. If you're limited to 91, you probably want to stay below 12. In any case, higher compression will help you make up the 5.0 - (2.0/1.8/1.6) difference in torque without having to spin the motor to 15,000rpm.
4. Airflow. Power comes from combustion. Combustion requires air. Put more air in, get more power out. Sound simple? ha! All big numbers NA cars have serious headwork done to them. The only exception I could see to this are the DC5R motors that flow 280CFM/port from the factory. The EF1/RM 200WHP B16 may have had an essentially stock bottom end, but it had *amazing* portwork. If you forget for a minute that airflow is what makes your power with a NA setup, you are a fool. The portwork will break the bank, but it is also where the real power is to be found, IMHO.
5. Pumping. The motor is essentially an air pump. If you do things to help it pump air more effectively, you're going to make more power. This would not be limited to: 2.5"/3" exhaust, ***SCAVENGING HEADER***, well designed plenu intake, ITBs
6. Tuning. You're going to spend days, if not weeks tuning a high power NA motor. If you switch to a ITB setup, double that. Serious portwork will help you make the serious power, but it also totally reshapes your VE curves, requiring you to completely retune the car even if you had kept the same cams. Change the cams AND do headwork while upping the compression and you might as well start over. Switch to ITBs and you'll probably be in the realm of a DFI7 or Motec, and even further lost. Point being: lots of time to get it right child.
So, does that expensive turbo kit sound any cheaper yet?
Seany-izzle
Member
get some stupid high compression pistons, new rods, big cams, valve springs & retainers, new intake mani, high flow header, 2.5inch exhust, short ram intake, port polish...maybe even stroke and/or bore...
if your really serious about making decent power out of a b16, it will be expensive. You can gain serious hp out of thinks like a header, but it wont be cheap. Hytech header's are GREAT, and on some dynos have shown up to 19whp GAIN. Down side, I can think of 1300 of them plus your going to have to wait 3months to get one.
You may want to do what pills did. He picked up a b18b block, built that up, and once he had it finished, put that in his car with his b16 head. basicly did an LS vtec. Check on his site (link is in his sig) and look at his times.
You may want to do what pills did. He picked up a b18b block, built that up, and once he had it finished, put that in his car with his b16 head. basicly did an LS vtec. Check on his site (link is in his sig) and look at his times.
yea dont' get to excited...
b16 with.....
jdm b16 sir II head
ITR throttle body
ITR intake manifold
ITR exhaust cam
ITR tranny 4.40 final drive
ITR inner valve springs
ITR retainers
CTR outer valve springs
CTR intake cam
skunk2 adjustable cam gears
AEM cold air intake
DC sports 4-1 ceramic header
2.25" open exhaust Thermal R&D muffler
b & m fuel pressure regulator and gauge
milled .020"
ITR Exedy Clutch and Pressure Plate
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
all nice and tuned up with the hondata....
get a b18 block. thats what i finally did.
https://hondaswap.com/~pills/lsvtecdyno.html
thats the lsvtec dyno results...
https://hondaswap.com/~pills/thesetup.html
and thats what was in it at the time...
thats the lsvtec dyno results...
https://hondaswap.com/~pills/thesetup.html
and thats what was in it at the time...
Or you can throw a B20 block under your totally stock head- just add high compression pistons and get something like this:
Screwing around with the cam timing will get you something more like this:
With more time on the dyno and Pills' ITR head parts, you could easily break 200hp and 160lbft at the wheels.
Screwing around with the cam timing will get you something more like this:
With more time on the dyno and Pills' ITR head parts, you could easily break 200hp and 160lbft at the wheels.