light weight crank pulley

[typesiracing]

I know lightweight crank pulleys exist, however, they still have spots for accessory belts. Does anyone know if there is a crank pulley with only one spot on it for the alternator belt.

 

[89_starter]

Nope its gonna be at factory specs. just buy one take it to the machine shop and have them eliminate the un used ribs.BUT!!!!!!!!!!! i don't know if that will effect the damping factor, unbalaced crankshaft is not worth the extra 1 or 2 hp you MIGHT get.

 

[civicious]

unorthodox makes one.

they're all over ebay.

 

[typesiracing]

thats what i was thinking of doing but i guess you are right about the gains......what's damping factor

 

[89_starter]

Originally posted by typesiracing@Jan 5 2004, 07:53 PM
thats what i was thinking of doing but i guess you are right about the gains......what's damping factor

Damping factor was kinda of a term I just made up but what I ment is that the harmonic dampers ( crank pullies) do double duty 1 help keep the crankshaft balanced and 2 spinnng the accesrories. The clearance betwwen most of these honda bearings is .002" and if and un balacned crank pully makes the crank "push" on the those bearing it could force the sheet of oil that the crank rides on out there for the bearing will touch the crank nicking it maring it and then bearing faliure will occur plus drag which will make you eninge spin slow and lose power but if you spin the bearing you won't even havce to worry about the power loss bause you got a bad bottom end on you hands to rebuild. That is the reason new or rebuilt engines have to be primed or you will have dry bearings.

 

[StyleTEG]

The stock pulley has a "pulse dampener" which blances out harmonic frequencies in the crankshaft.

The pulse dampner is a highly compressed rubber section between the AC ribs and the Alternator ribs. So if you do get ribs shaved off, make sure you leave enough of the AC rib to leave the rubber in place.

 

[xj0hnx]

N-1 pulleys have only one spot for a belt, and the are lightened.

 

[KFBhonda]

yeah civic type r crank pulley is alternator only. i see them for $64.99 on ebay every day. designed by honda.

 

[StyleTEG]

The N1 crank pulley does not have a pulse dampener.

 

[typesiracing]

cool thanks for all the help guys.....type r sound like the way to go

 

[JDMilan]

or you can just machine your current crank pulley, and get it balanced so that it only has one area for your alternator pulley, plus it would get the dampener.


just an idea, and you woundn't have to buy the extra belt that you should get with the ctr pulley.

 

[StyleTEG]

cool thanks for all the help guys.....type r sound like the way to go

No, because like I said it still does NOT have a pulse dampener. If you are going to run a pulley with out a pulse dampener, you might as well get the unorthadox since its lighter.

The pulse dampener is compressed rubber between the PS and the Alternator rib. If you were to machine off the other two ribs you would have to leave enough of the rib on the AC to keep the rubber in tackt.

 

[KFBhonda]

Originally posted by StyleTEG@Jan 7 2004, 12:05 PM

cool thanks for all the help guys.....type r sound like the way to go

No, because like I said it still does NOT have a pulse dampener. If you are going to run a pulley with out a pulse dampener, you might as well get the unorthadox since its lighter.

The pulse dampener is compressed rubber between the PS and the Alternator rib. If you were to machine off the other two ribs you would have to leave enough of the rib on the AC to keep the rubber in tackt.

yeah 'cause i'm sure honda didn't put any research & design into the civic type-r b16b engine. :roll:

 

[StyleTEG]

Sigh, again..

just because honda made one peice for the CTR engine, doesn't mean its what you should run on your daily driver.

Let me begin by saying that we have always called the pulley on the accessory drive end on the Honda cranks Harmonic Balancers. People never seemed to understand what we were talking about and so the word "pulley" was frequently used to avoid confusion. If you look carefully at a Honda "pulley", you'll find that it's not a single piece of metal. Typically, there's a nodular iron or steel hub and another "ring" of iron or steel surrounding it containing the belt grooves. The two parts are joined by a rubber layer, which is highly compressed and sandwiched between them. Why rubber? If you notice, many four cylinder engines over the years have used counter rotating shafts to help make the engine "feel" smoother. Reciprocating internal combustion engines and especially in-line four cylinder versions, all produce shock pulses, which are very apparent to the occupants of the car. Every engine produces a shock pulse each time an individual cylinder fires. So, in the case of the four cylinder variety, there are four large individual pulses for each 720 degrees of crank rotation. Each time there's a pulse, it causes the internal components to do a rapid acceleration-deceleration event. When you consider the mass of all the internal components and visualize all these parts stopping and starting during their reciprocating and rotating motions, the additional stress "spikes" tend to make it all the more reason for one to wonder how any of it can work for any length of time. The harmonic balancer is made with the rubber coupling so that, when the individual "spikes" occur, the inner portion may move with the crank, but the rubber connected outer ring's mass helps prevent the hub and crank from going as far or as fast during the spikes or pulses. Remember that the outer part had considerable mass, so it tends to want to stay in motion at the speed that it's traveling and that's why it can prevent excessive harsh motion by the crank and other internal parts. To put it simply, the harmonic balancer is a shock absorber for the engine and thus prevents the individual pulses from destroying everything in the engine.

People fall under this false safety that if honda made it for the CTR, it has to be fine for my USDM B16.

If you want, I can show you pictures of what happened to someones new barings after very little miles, running with out a harmonic balancer.

You can do what you want with your cars, but I would rather understand a parts effect on longevitty than blindly follow "honda made it so it be da good" :roll:

 

[KFBhonda]

i read all those words on the last post, including the bulky quote.
it said nothing.
the honda ctr pulley was designed for a daily driver.
the car is called a civic type-r.

just because honda made one peice for the CTR engine, doesn't mean its what you should run on your daily driver.

i guess the aftermarket companies always know better... :roll: :roll:

 

[StyleTEG]

The N1 pulley is a race peice, hence the term "N1"

The bulky quote was Larry from Energy Dynamics. How did it not say something? It decribed what happens in an internal combustion engines and how the shock pulses effecting the rotational/recipricating mass.

My point is that the N1 pulley doesn't have a harmonic balancer. Most aftermarket ones don't either. If you read all about the effects of running with out a harmonic balancer, why not just get the lightest one available? Of cource the smart thing to do would to run a pulley WITH a harmonic balancer.

An alluminum hub is an alluminum hub. The only thing the aftermarket company could screw up is the timming marks.

When a cylinder fires, that crankshaft journal pulses forward (yes crankshafts flex), and that journal also rebounds. Every journal on the crank goes through the same motions, and the greater the engine's power, the more violent the pulsations.
Try to picture this now....the crank is rotating, but the individual journals are ocillating back and forth at the same time, meaning that there's vibration in the crankshaft. This vibration is transmitted into everything connected to the crank. Ask someone in the aircraft industry about the effects of vibration sometime.....it doesn't take much to break pieces that appear very substantial...and the same is true about the bottom end of an engine.

Check out some of these discussions on harmonic balancers

Link 1

Link 2

There is a lighter 1.8 lb chromoly steel Honda N1 crank pulley made for the N1 CTR race cars. It has the 3 timing marks just like the stock pulley but the accessory (eg. power steering and A/C ) grooves for the belts have been cut off to lighten it. This is a factory crank pulley made for racing.

link 3

 

[mjfubar]

i guess i just dont know but all i read is a shit load of words from all of you harmonic balancer and all sorts of stuff i guess i just see it as less stress on the crank to turn the pulley is better more power so i dont know id get the one from unorthodox

 

[asmallsol]

Originally posted by KFBhonda@Jan 8 2004, 10:57 AM
i read all those words on the last post, including the bulky quote.
it said nothing.
the honda ctr pulley was designed for a daily driver.
the car is called a civic type-r.

just because honda made one peice for the CTR engine, doesn't mean its what you should run on your daily driver.

i guess the aftermarket companies always know better... :roll: :roll:

styleteg is right. The N1 peice did not actually come stock on the CTR's, they were an aftermarket peice from honda that is made for a race engine that gets rebuilt after every race. The CTR did not come with the N1 pulley from the factory. It is like you going to SVT and buying parts that are on the Nascar engine. I am sure that you will see some positive affects if you throw that on your mustang, but nascar engines are ment to last 503 miles. If they blow after that, who gives a shit. Honda's n1 cars are designed the same way. They are ment to last 12 or 24 hours (how ever long the endrus are) then if they blow after that, who cares. They are trying to win a race where ever little ounce count. They are not trying to make there engine last to 300k miles.

I have seen and heard many stories of people spinning bearings after just a few thousand miles after they install an aftermarket pulley.

And for the person who said "oh, I see lots of word" yes because that is called a proper responce, instead of just saying "werd" or sure do it, its cool. You asked for advise, now you dont like the idea that ebay products are wrong, so now your just pissing and moaning. This, like all forums are not designed for the Illiterate, it is not like superstreet "tuner mags" that have more pictures then words. Styleteg gave you a responce that is 100% true, and is good advise, however, you try and play dumb because he offered advice that goes against what you want. There is a reason why all cars today have a harmonic ballancer from the factory.

 

[KFBhonda]

i am man enough to admit when i am wrong and this is one of those times.
the harmonic balancer is important.
isn't there a pulley that is available for purchase that does include the harmonic balancer but doesn't power anything except the alternator?

 

[posol]

Originally posted by StyleTEG@Jan 8 2004, 01:33 AM
Sigh, again..

just because honda made one peice for the CTR engine, doesn't mean its what you should run on your daily driver.

he's right.

the CTR pulley is NOT the CTR n1 pulley.

the n1 was optional or some shit.. the ctr has power steering, and most likely had a/c as an option.

keep the stock pulley. the gain you'd get of switching is so minimal anyway. there's better ways to make horsepower.