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New guy with a few questions.

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> BA-BB /CA-CD' started by spshultz, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. spshultz

    spshultz Junior Member

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    Howdy all! Let me start by saying that I am a lover of all cars. I currently have a 1983 Chevy C-10 w/350 TH350 making around 330Hp/390Tq, also have 1985 Ford F-150 with 300ci I-6 (torquey thing), 2004 Hyundai Elantra GT (my wifes car), a 2004 Dodge Durango Limited w/345...and....1991 Honda Accord (that my sister-in-law just gave me because it's got a bad clutch, smokes pretty good and needs new CV's (about 245k miles on it).

    I'm posting because the Durango is of course a real killer on gas mileage but we needed it to haul all the kids. It's good for family trips, but not as a daily driver (100 miles round trip to work 5 days a week). I traded in a well used 1999 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS for it.

    I have decided to use the Honda as the daily driver. Since the engine has a ton of mileage I thought that yanking it out and tossing in an H22A would be the best bet (if I can find one with all the fixings).

    So...I guess my first question is; "Was there a definite difference in power felt for those of you that went from the F22A# to the H22A?". I'll keep the F22 if the H22 doesn't deliver that much in performance.

    This is going to be the car that I put 40,000 miles a year on and I need it to drive well, have some nuts and do well in all weather.

    Thanks!

    Shawn
    Colorado

    Ah hell...If this in the wrong forum I apologize. There will be a few more questions regarding the swap like; "Will I need new axles from a Prelude? I'll be keeping the stock transmission unless I can find a packaged deal with a manual. If I keep the stock transmission then can I use the stock axles? And so on...

    Thanks gain.
     
  2. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    lemme give you a quick HELL YA

    the f22's are suprisingly fast in stock form...
    H23's will give you 20 more horse for 160, but their lower ends tend to detonate...
    the H22 is what should have came in accords stock...
    its well worth the 2300 for the swap...
    you will love every second of it, but its a diffrent breed from the 300+ cubic inches you are used to, totally diffrent ball game...

    edit:
    get the full swap
    the f22 tranny will drop out of vtec between shifts... although i hear an ex trans will stay in vtec... use the axles that come with the swap...
     
  3. lude9593

    lude9593 Senior Member

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    :werd: the swap is definately worth it and you can find places on the internet that sell everything together such as motor,tranny,axles,ecu. it'll be a pretty nice sleeper with an h22.
     
  4. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    I would only switch the tranny if either you got a killer deal on the combo, your old tranny was trash, or you really want LSD. Other than that, the engine is going to make the biggest difference. I switched trannies, and the gearing is not that much different. A good cat back exhaust made a huge difference for me.

    The H22A spins a lot higher, and the VTEC kicks very hard. The F22 redlines at 6200, whereas the H22 can safely hit 8k. The fuel cutoff is 7600 rpms.

    It is definitely worth it on a daily driver. The smile on your face while banging gears will be proof of that.
     
  5. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    still hurts when you fall out of vtec between 1st and 2nd, and 2nd and 3rd
     
  6. spshultz

    spshultz Junior Member

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    I found a place that was mentioned here on the site; jdmsource.ca
    They list everything but the CV's/shafts. I wonder, do they come as part of the transmission? They also list the transmission as "hydraulic" Is that auto or hydraulic manual?

    And thanks for the replies. I was worried that it might feel just about the same.
    A 350 should be torquey and powerful. A 289 should be a rev monster. A rotary is all together different (I used to own a 1988 T2 RX7 on Okinawa). Each engine has their differences. If the H22 has an almost 8k rev limit then I will take advantage of that extended range. That type of engine should only have a manual attached to it. This is going to be fun. :D

    (It was this or taking the 350 out of my truck and dropping it into a dead motored RX7 but the gas mileage still wouldn't have been much higher than the Durango. That swap will have to come after the kids graduate high school.)
     
  7. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    the hydraulic usually refers to the clutch disengaging device...

    either cable or hydraulic... your accord has hydraulic
     
  8. lude9593

    lude9593 Senior Member

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    the axles don't come as a part of the tranny but you can pick a set up for fairly cheap. usually 70 bucks per axle. however, a guy on here is selling a set of prelude axles. he actually had two sets but i bought one of em and it looks good. i got both for 88 bucks shipped. you might be able to negotiate with him too. i'd look into it.

    go to delusionh.com and click on the garage sell. hope this helps
     
  9. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    The Prelude axles are the same as the Accord axles.

    By all means, buy the H22 manual tranny if you have the money. I just know that the swap is kinda spendy to begin with, and guys want to know where to cut corners. My point was that I had a much larger gain from the catback than switching trannies.

    You can pick the H22 motor up for just over 1100 if you search and pay about 200 for the ECU. Now, if you can get the complete swap for <$2000, and do the work yourself, then that would be a decent deal.
    >2k, not installed is too much in my opinion. I paid <$1800 to my door for motor, tranny and ECU(Automatic swap).
     
  10. spshultz

    spshultz Junior Member

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    Well, I am taking the plunge. Going to go thru jdmsource.ca to get it. Shafts were an extra $50 so I couldn't complain.

    I notice that the power steering pump and A/C unit comes with the engine. Will there be a compatibility issue with the hoses already in the Accord or is it just plug and play? What I'm worried about is having to fabricate brackets or new high pressure hoses (A/C and power steering) because that will really slow me down.

    And I just want to nip this in the bud now so I can research it a little, but what size exhaust will still allow the gasses to stay hot and not lose velocity but be large enough to give decent gains on the H22A? I figure 2.25" will be as big as I want to go without using forced induction. I believe 2.5" would be to big causing loss of heat/velocity and affect my bottom end. So many times someone will put a 2.5" or 3" exhaust on a 4-cylinder and wonder why they are so slow. It's all about thermal dynamics, velocity and scavenging. Way back when I'd want the loudest, meanest muffer around. Gotta let them know your coming. But I've gotten older and now just look for a nice mellow yet quiet (non-bumble bee) sound. Sleeper is the word here.

    Oh and one more darn question: Does Jackson (or anyone else) make a supercharger for the H22A's? How about reliable turbo kits?


    Thanks again.

    Shawn
    in Colorado
     
  11. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    Hey Shawn in Colorado.......... :wave:


    Use the prelude pump, and buy a prelude hose from Honda $140. Either that or have the prelude end(which will probably be on the pump you recieve) spliced or welded to your Accord hose. I tried this, and the weld leaked, and I didn't weld it. Two hydraulic shops in the area would not touch the hose, too much liability. I bought a new Prelude hose and custom bent the bottom end. Works terrific!!!

    For AC, keep your Accord AC pump and hoses intact. You will move a few brackets around, and keep everything. The Prelude pump is extra shipping weight.

    For the exhaust. I did some research, like yourself. I wasn't sure if 2.5" would be too much. I was also concerned with obstructions, and exhaust velocity. My stock header was fine, but my downpipe was hammered(literally, by pavement, hung too low, 97+downpipe.)
    I opted for the 2.5" catback. So, I have a Ebay stainless header with O2 bung, stock cat, and 2.5" stainless mandrel bent catback. I didn't like the fartcan muffler, so I removed it, and added a nice freeflowing VIBRANT muffler. I couldn't be happier. My low end is definitely decent, and mid-top end is phenominal compared to stock. I don't think I went too big. I put a lot of emphasis on exhaust velocity, so I cleaned up the ports on the header, on the cat, and changed the muffler for a free flowing quiet type. The Vibrant muffer is a straight through design, no louvres, but has a large diameter and long length to quiet the ride down a lot. Definitely not a fart can.

    I know there is a supercharger kit, but I heard the clearance issue is a bitch. I have no hard facts.

    I believe in building a kit with proper engine and fuel management compared to buying a turbo kit. A turbo kit might be a nice start, but a H22A Accord will require a lot of modifications that just won't be accounted for in a kit.
     
  12. spshultz

    spshultz Junior Member

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    Great! Thanks Tab. I've never heard of Vibrant so I'm off to do some research.

    We moved the car into place today and degreased the engine. Nothing sounds worse than metal on metal when you're slipping the clutch. Sounds like a wookie and a yeti mating. I can't wait to see how bad that clutch looks.
     
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