1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

plastic back into oil???

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by E_SolSi, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,036
    Likes Received:
    3,970
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
  2. CRX-YEM

    CRX-YEM Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    54
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Location:
    Wallingford, CT
    How much energy does it take to process the plastic back to oil vs. the energy you get out of the oil? That's my biggest question with any type of renewable resource
     
  3. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,446
    Likes Received:
    92
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
  4. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    420
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Exactly. Something people hardly ever talk about really. Look at the EVs everyone is pimping these days. Yes they are great but where does most electricity come from? Coal fire plants. Trading one form of pollution for another really. Here in Washington every 10 years or so someone wants to rip our hydroelectric dams out because of the fish, then they bitch about clean renewable energy at the same time.
     
  5. D16Civic

    D16Civic Matt

    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    149
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    Chesterfield Twp, MI
    With the limited range of the EV's, they really aren't even that efficient when you factor in the charging costs. You can't plug them into a typical 110v 15a plug.

    The plastic to oil thing, while pretty cool, is something I can't ever see on a larger scale unless it could be profitable. I could foresee municipalities stockpiling plastic refuse picked up curbside and trying to sell it to whomever tried to use this process, and the profitability of it would be very limited. It would be interesting to see the volume of plastic needed to create, say, a "barrel" of usable oil, much less refine it further to gasoline or diesel.
     
  6. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    420
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    But profit is bad!

    Anyway, this is a pretty great proof of concept. Who knows, they may come up with a way to make it more efficient and cheaper to operate. It wasn't all that long ago when shale oil was considered black magic voodoo that would kill babies. But then again innovations like that took place in a climate where innovation and profit making was viewed as a great thing.
     
  7. D16Civic

    D16Civic Matt

    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    149
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    Chesterfield Twp, MI
    Maybe the government could run it. We need a czar for this.
     
  8. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    7,402
    Likes Received:
    626
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Location:
    Tn

    this is a great idea. leave it to the asians to figure it out lol.

    but, i would imagine that when compared to the cost of pumping the oil out of the ground, shipping the raw oil, processing and refining, then shipping again, then storing, then shipping, then refining again into the different fuels, then storing, then pumping it up the pipelines, into a truck, then shipping again, finally to be delivered and pumped into your car. this would be a comparable cost.

    the biggest key factor is keeping greed out of it, like stated above, somebody will start sitting on all the garbage that they were just trying to pawn off on somebody else bc they now know that it has some potential.

    this is something, that if kept on a local scale, no giant corporation involvement, independent states/cities could have great potential to clean up their communities, oceans, rivers, and lakes as well as start to reverse the overbearing landfills.

    but, like everything else, corporate greed will destroy this great idea.
     
  9. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    420
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    so tiny corporations should handle it or the government should? I guess I don't understand the corporate greed aspect.
     
  10. Cashizslick

    Cashizslick !i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!

    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Nothing that benefits a co2 emitting device will get any press in the united states . . . sadly.


    What an awesome machine. Rig it up with some solar panels, or to a nuclear power plant, and it can be run with virtually no energy input cost.
     
  11. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,036
    Likes Received:
    3,970
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
  12. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,036
    Likes Received:
    3,970
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    here is another company that looks like they are making a larger scale version of this
    Envion | Waste to Resource

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    here is an amazingly boring 11 minute video that shows detailed clips of the machine and process, while giving you absolutely no information or narrative on anything

    Envion Demo on Vimeo


    still no info on how much energy it takes to get the plastic back into oil form
     
  13. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

    Messages:
    21,456
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Location:
    CT
    who cares if it takes more energy? the plastic still needs to go instead of sit there or in the ocean for 123412331212 years.

    pacific ocean plastic - Google Search

    its disgusting....
     
  14. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    420
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    If someone where allowed to do this in a true free market without the EPA so far up their ass they could get this done and be competitive.
     
  15. EGProject

    EGProject YEEEEAAHHHHH

    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Location:
    Whitinsville, Massachusetts
    Buy waste plastic from China. Profit??????
     
  16. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,036
    Likes Received:
    3,970
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT

    the problem is... if it is not efficient then it is not going to gain any traction and will be lost to history as little more than an idea that sounded like it might have been cool if only it worked better

    in order for this to go anywhere it needs to be efficient... it needs to be easy... it needs to be convenient... and it needs to be profitable

    because if it is not efficient then there is no point in doing this instead of just recycling the plastic back into plastic

    the second company i posted up claims to be able to work with any plastics... no sorting cleaning or drying needed... so it definitely seems that it falls into the easy category

    recycling is pretty fucking easy in this country and still only between 6 and 27% of plastics are recycled (varying numbers depending on sources)... some places do not have good recycling programs set up... some people simply cant be bothered to find a recycling bin to throw their shit in... some people dont know how or what to recycle... some people just dont give a fuck

    and finally it needs to be profitable... they need to be able to make more money on the 3-5 barrels of oil they can get from 1 ton of plastic than it costs for them to produce it... otherwise this is on a deadend road right from the get go... unless it gets government subsidized... and we all know how well that works :rolleyes:

    so 30,000-50,000 barrels of oil annually per unit
    oil has been averaging about $75 per barrel for the past year
    that means at current prices each unit has the capability of producing $2,250,000 - $3,750,000 worth of oil annually... but then you have to factor in the cost of the equipment... the cost of running it... maintaining it... hiring people to run it... getting the plastic... and all of the other etc... and now the $2.25-3.75 million isnt looking like nearly as much money...

    you might be able to charge more for this oil because it is cleaner than the oil coming out of the ground now... so it will require less work to put it to market... but you still need to make enough to outweigh your cost of operation... and nobody has mentioned those numbers yet


    just because something is a good idea on paper doesnt mean that its practical or going anywhere...
     
  17. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

    Messages:
    21,456
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Location:
    CT
    Gov't subsidy like corn is certainly needed. It is still cheaper to buy corn than to grow it yourself in any size acreage.
     
  18. Cashizslick

    Cashizslick !i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!

    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003

    Nuclear power. Its efficient, safe, near limitless power.

    Just ask the french, or the americans, or the iranians. Dont ask the russians.
     
  19. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

    Messages:
    21,456
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Location:
    CT
    the problem with nuc power is where do you put the spent fuel rods?
     
  20. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,036
    Likes Received:
    3,970
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    i posted this idea up a while back in another thread

    collect them up
    when you get a reasonable amount of them you launch them into space
    aim them on a collision course with the sun
    they get burned up in the great fusion reactor in the sky

    nice and easy
    no bullshit
    no worries about contaminating an underground cavern for millions of years
    probably cheaper in the long run
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page