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RC 550cc Injectors on T-bo B18b can I use SAFC?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by LSTurboCivic4DR, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    Hey! I am new here, and exided to talk out some interesting stuff! Anyways, I amd trying to figure out how to do some cheap fuel managment (I know that dosent sound good). Anyway I was looking at a Hondata, but some Miami shop talked me out of it, they told me it sucked, and it cost 500 for them to tune it because they always have to reprogram eproms for it, then they tryed to sell me a 1500 dollar AEM System. Anyway, mabey yall can help me, here is what I got...
    98 b18b
    00 b18b head
    T3/T04e with 57 trim wheel and .50, .63 A/R
    Tial 38mm Wastegate
    HKS BOV
    Custom Equal legth manifold with Downpipe
    Spearco Front mount
    And for the fuel...
    RC 550cc Injectors
    AEM Fuel Rail
    Walbro 255gph fuel pump
    I do not want to go with a vortech FMU, I was wondering if I could use a Apexi S-AFC2 to tune for fuel with my bigger injectors? I heard some guy saying he is running a Vortech FMU and the Apexi sAFC, I do not know what to use, and am anxious to get my car running. I am only going to run 7psi of boost for now. Thank for any help, Frank.
     
  2. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    you won't need the FMU with the AFC, the only thing I'm unsure about is if the AFC will be able to take away enough fuel from those 550s. Generally the AFC hack is done with a 450cc injector up to about 10psi. The reason being that you will run rich at idle/low rpms.

    seeing your setup, the hack should be relatively straightforward. I bet you can easily trade those 550s for some 450s, or just sell them and buy new ones. Unless someone thinks it can be done with the 550s - I personally am skeptical, but i've never tried it.
     
  3. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    Well the reason I got the 550cc injectors is because I want to build the motor in the next 6 mounths, and my goal is for 350 HP to the wheels, everyone says have a goal and buy your parts for it, so that is what I did. However, I WANT BOOST NOW :) so i figered on running a .4 bar (7.25) wastegate on the stock shit and give it fuel so I do not detonate. I am ready to buy some sort of hack, but like i said I dont know what to get with the injectors? Thanks again for the help
     
  4. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    well It could work with the 550s, I would guess that it would end up witha crappy idle and possibly a CEL though.


    In your case, where you are planning to go big in 6 months, I would honestly reccomend the Hondata or AEM system.
     
  5. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    Could you recomend a way to get up and running with a piggyback system untill I build later? Would a FMU be better? I dont know much about fuel managment expet IT IS IMPORTAND! I want to get up and running for cheap now (I am running out of cash) and go with a partial stand alone when I build (Hondata or AEM)
     
  6. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    If i did use the vortech FMU, what disc would I use since I am running 550cc injectors? Would I go smalle like the 4 or 6 to 1? Thanks
     
  7. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    you would probably go with the smallest disk possible for that low of a boost setting. I don't know much about FMUs though, I have never bothered to learn about them. I'm sure it would work for the short term though, retard your timing a bunch and use a rising rate regulator.
     
  8. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    I just thought that the SAFC would work better the the FMU because I could have some control over it, all the vortech FMU does is raise the fuel pressure however many the number disc in it is (for example 12 to 1) that many psi per pound of boost when it sees boost through the vacume, so if you run a 12 to 1 FMU and hit 7psi, at 7 psi it makes your fuel pressure 84psi, so you let more fuel in when the injectors open. At least that is my take on it, I may be wrong. But if you or anyone has any idea for me and what to do for about $300 to get fuel managment for about 7 psi with 550cc injectors please help, Thanks alot.
     
  9. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    You are exactly right about how the FMU works, It just basically "tricks" the injectors into sending more fuel because of the higher pressure.


    If you could afford it, I would go for the AFC hack over the FMU. There really isn't another good way of budget tuning. You could just buy some used RC450s and a VAFC, that would be pretty close to budget. Then when you switch to different fuel management, you could just clean up the injectors and resell them.
     
  10. LSTurboCivic4DR

    LSTurboCivic4DR Junior Member

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    I know I may be beating a dead horse here and I am sorry for that, buit let see. I already have 550's so If I run those with the safc, i can lean them out with the hack (on a dyno of corse with wideband) and probley just be running rich on the bottom end? I relly do not want to buy more injectors. Also, could I hook everything togather, including the safc, 550's and without tunning the piggyback, drive to a dyno without risk of detonating? I have a hookup through my work with superchips headquarters and there going to help me tune, they are about 20 miles from my house. Thanks again for the help
     
  11. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    550s are over the limits of an VAFC or SAFC. you will flood at idel. the -30% or whatever the limit is is probably not going to be enough of a "kill" of fuel flow. 440s and 450s are the common size for the hack. I've never seen 550s done succesfully.

    I'd highly recommend you get a hondata. yes, it costs 4-500 bucks, and then another couple hundred for the dyno and tuner costs- but frankly, its the best possible monsy you could ever spend on a turbo system.
    It's amazing that EVERYONE skimps out on the most important part of a high powered car- fuel management.

    plus, to hit 350 whp, you are going to need more than 10 psi, which means you need a 3-bar map sensor, which means, you want to get hondata. Ignition tables play a big factor.

    FMU's are bottom of the barell... i wouldn't boost more than 8 pounds with one.

    when you get a hondata from a dealer- you get a base map from them- basically, you tell them your setup, and they burn you a chip that will START your car and make it DRIVABLE to a dyno. it is not meant to be boosted on, nor driven far.

    everytime you drive, you risk detonation. that is why, it is the #1 thing- get the car tuned. not only will be safer, you will make more power and the car will feel so much smoother.
     
  12. SolReaver

    SolReaver Senior Member

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    :werd:

    if hondata looks too expensive for you then check into uberdata

    pretty much the same thing only its free :)
     
  13. vtectuned

    vtectuned Junior Member

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    injectors are too much.
     
  14. b16ahatch

    b16ahatch Senior Member

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    550cc injecotrs are way to big to run on a safc/vafc. i run 370cc on mine and sometimes stall out at idle, or if im romping on it and all of a sudeen stop. 350whp can easily be made with a vafc/safc and or a fmu, but your gonna need smaller injectors. My set up is somewhat similar to yours and i made 350whp but that was also at 15 psi on a b16. Basically like everyone else is saying if you plan on getting more power down the road save yourself the problems and skip the samller injectors and safc/vafc and get your self a good fuel managment set up. Personaly i like apexi power fc but the only problem with that is that everytime you jump up in injector size you need to send the unit out to get remapd, or my second choice would be aem, i dont know to much about hondata but from what the guys on this site say they are pretty good so.
     
  15. cws13

    cws13 Senior Member

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    I skipped past the replys so forgive me for being redundent if I am. If your shop was trying to A: roll you into an AEM EMS for that set up, or B: says that tuning an EMS is easier than Hondata- FIND A NEW SHOP. No shit, run don't walk. Run the Hondata and if you can't afford it wait. An FMU is Bullshit ( I think B aptly broke it down as Fucks Motor Up)and a SAFC is a unqualified hack for your app.
     
  16. calvin

    calvin Senior Member

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    chip your ecu with a boost chip.
    1bar/2bar/3bar chip? 550 injec?

    MSG me i will tell how i did in my car.
     
  17. turbohatch

    turbohatch Junior Member

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    aem system is too expensive and hard to tune.If anything i get a hondata, but there are another way u can go.I have a friend program a chip for my turbo set up.I am right now puting about 320whp at 11 psi 450 dsm injectors. Iam only boosting at 11psi because i dont have the gm3 par map, but once i put that in i should be able to go to 15 psi with the same injector runing at 80% duty cycle. this set u do not need a fmu or missing link,it also retard your timing 1.25 deg. for every lb of boost to prevent detonation.U will need a fpr and an p72 or p28 obd1 ecu . I can have the guy burn u a chip and see how it work out. pm me if u have any ?
     
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