religion

[punkyjewster41]

Originally posted by UDT@Nov 15 2003, 11:56 AM
FUCK man thats a fuckin close one eh........ shit i never even thought about that one i mean not even for a second i still cant believe the people who become nuns and shit its lts like weed them but damn the a fuckin step and a half i think in a few years after they die off there wont be any nuns and preachers and what not. by the way im catholic but never did my studys or anything like that my sissters did but not me, i have been have a hard time believeing in god for a few years now though i want to and still do. its just when you see some kinds of things i wont even mention, it bocomes much harder to believe some one would let some thing like the stuff that does happen if there was any way to stop/contorl it. but just for a small example.

1. people startv all over when my fuckin fammly sits fat and happy wasting food

2. Bum fights that had to be one of the more disgusting things i can think of to make some one whos not right in the head fight another person in order to feed them self or a bad habit they have IE drugs or booz. and weed isint a drug

3.depression to the point wehre you want to kill your self or cut you self to relieve pain

5. guys who treat girls with so little respect that it makes you sick to your stomach to see the women treated like she is by whom ever

6. molesters and kiddie porn i have stumbeld across some when in my normal hunt for normal porn and i have to say it was wrather grotesque to see younger girls treated in such a fashion, it was almost a myth to me till i seen the pictures.

7. so on and so on etc. etc.

wow, i didnt read this one, but first of all man, i barely understood what you were trying to say, its like your fingers have dyslexicia or something, second of all if God stopped every bad thing that was every going to happen, imagine what lazy dependent people we would come ( let me add that we should be dependent on god, but read on). If God did everything for us, could you imagine us sitting around saying " hey dude, this sucks, change the channel"..." nah bro, God will do it". Life is what you make of it, and we have to prove to God that we will make a life dedicated to him and loving him and others, if God let his presence be known and stop all bad things, how would he ever know who would sincerely be willing to sacrifice the worldly things to take the right direction? If you dont recall ( all you people who know the bible "oh so well" to completely rule it out) in genesis two people screwed having a perfect world over for the rest of us a looooooong time ago. So dont bring that " if God is real, why do people die?" crap up again, its simply irrellavent.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by punkyjewster41@Nov 15 2003, 04:25 PM

pretty ironic that the site you got all that ark stuff from is run by a christian...dun dun dun dun!

I don't think so, where does it say that the person running the skepticsannotatedbible.com is christian?

I prefer agnostic to atheist. The truth is I don't know and neither does anyone else because at the moment there is no way to know. I doubt there is much if any thruth in any of the mainstream religions (less in most cults) but I cannot completely disprove the statement God exists, nor can any of you prove it. Faith can be a good thing for a person the problem is most use it as a crutch to avoid thinking for themselves. They cannot handle the possiblilty that we are here by shear dumb luck with no higher purpose or higher being at all, that when you die that is it. Worst of all faith can and is used as a method of crowd control. It is used by a few elite individuals (usually educated or power or rich or any combination there of) to get a groupd of people to act or think how that person wants. Look at the crusades, the inquisition, the fighting in Ireland, in India, in the Middle East. All of it is fueled by ingorant or uneducated people blindly following what they are told by religion or religious leaders.

 

[punkyjewster41]

Originally posted by lsvtec+Nov 15 2003, 05:54 PM-->

punkyjewster41

@Nov 15 2003, 04:25 PM

pretty ironic that the site you got all that ark stuff from is run by a christian...dun dun dun dun!

I don't think so, where does it say that the person running the skepticsannotatedbible.com is christian?

I prefer agnostic to atheist. The truth is I don't know and neither does anyone else because at the moment there is no way to know. I doubt there is much if any thruth in any of the mainstream religions (less in most cults) but I cannot completely disprove the statement God exists, nor can any of you prove it. Faith can be a good thing for a person the problem is most use it as a crutch to avoid thinking for themselves. They cannot handle the possiblilty that we are here by shear dumb luck with no higher purpose or higher being at all, that when you die that is it. Worst of all faith can and is used as a method of crowd control. It is used by a few elite individuals (usually educated or power or rich or any combination there of) to get a groupd of people to act or think how that person wants. Look at the crusades, the inquisition, the fighting in Ireland, in India, in the Middle East. All of it is fueled by ingorant or uneducated people blindly following what they are told by religion or religious leaders.

I didnt mean that site, i mean the one at the bottom of his post about the ark, cheif. And yes, yes i can prove to you that God exists, if you come to my school with an open un-biased mind ( which you claim to have) and a heart to listen and truely learn.

 

[lsvtec]

You cannot empirically prove that God exists. If doing so requires "coming to your school" then no thanks. If you have solid proof that God exists (remember it has to be empirical and acceptable to the scientific community at large) then by all means post it. But as stated before (in this thread I think) the burden of proof is with you not I because you are asserting a claim, I am not.

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by Smonkeyboy@Nov 15 2003, 05:28 PM

  I’ve found absolutely no reason to believe in a higher power at all...everything on earth can be explained by science

maybe not on earth, but do you honestly believe that earth is the only planet w/ intelligent life on it?? If you believe in the big bang theory that the universe started as one ball of super-concentrated mass and then just exploded, how did that mass get there, why did it explode, something had to put it there, something had to make it explode.

I dont think you really have a full understanding of the big bang theory...

check this page out...lots of good info

http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/acosmbb.html

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by punkyjewster41@Nov 15 2003, 05:40 PM
If you dont recall ( all you people who know the bible "oh so well" to completely rule it out) in genesis two people screwed having a perfect world over for the rest of us a looooooong time ago.

I find it amazing how those that believe in the bible try to use it as an explanation.

what makes you think that i will believe ANY scripture in the bible!?!

you can't use something to verify its own validity if its validity is questioned

So dont bring that " if God is real, why do people die?" crap up again, its simply irrellavent.

no its not irrelevant. its actually one of the strongest points atheists have.

1. God (the Islamo-Judeo-Christian God, specifically) is all-knowing (he knows everything there is to know, past present, and future).
2. God is all-powerful (there is nothing that is beyond God's ability).
3. God is all-good (God will cause good and stop evil if it is within His ability).
4. There is evil in the world.
5. God is either not all-knowing (he doesn't know of the evil), not all powerful (God can't stop the evil in the world) or all-good (God won't stop the evil in the world).

id like to hear the christian response to that^^

 

[mattcalica]

like i said in my first post, which started this argument, i used to be a hardcore christian. I soon realized though, that i was being sooooo closed minded. i think about it this way, if some guy in this day and age said he was a prophet speaking on behalf of god and he wrote a book, would the christian church allow it into the bible? i dont think so. so how can we trust the writings of other men 2000+ years ago? I DO believe that religion plays a important role though...it sets a moral structure for our society to follow...imagine the world without christianity, sure it caused a lot of wars and such, ie. the crusades, but without it, there would really be no moral backbone to follow. evolution does nothing but explain the creation of life, it sets no moral standards, so the world without religion would be a world full of chaos, in which nobody new what was right or wrong. so religion is very important.

 

[GSRCRXsi]

first thing...

about the arc, for one i doubt that it would have lasted for 3000+ years. wood would deteriorate and rot if not preserved in someway after a while. did they do radio carbon dating on it?

it also says that the arc was covered but mud and lava. this could have preserved it, but mostliekly would have destroyed it, and it says that the thing was covered while in the 20th century. i still think they found just some boat that happened to be the same size. did anyone think it could be a hoax? thats like saying every crop circle that has ever existed was made by aliens.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by mattcalica@Nov 15 2003, 05:55 PM
like i said in my first post, which started this argument, i used to be a hardcore christian. I soon realized though, that i was being sooooo closed minded. i think about it this way, if some guy in this day and age said he was a prophet speaking on behalf of god and he wrote a book, would the christian church allow it into the bible? i dont think so. so how can we trust the writings of other men 2000+ years ago? I DO believe that religion plays a important role though...it sets a moral structure for our society to follow...imagine the world without christianity, sure it caused a lot of wars and such, ie. the crusades, but without it, there would really be no moral backbone to follow. evolution does nothing but explain the creation of life, it sets no moral standards, so the world without religion would be a world full of chaos, in which nobody new what was right or wrong. so religion is very important.

Chirstianity cannot be given the credit for civilization. Humankind was "civilized" long before Christianity was born. The Japanese and the Chinese had "civilization" long before Christianity came to them. The Romans and the Greek were seemed to get along fine before Christianity. Much of early mathematics grew up in a Land that is still not Chistian.

 

[punkyjewster41]

Originally posted by SolReaver+Nov 15 2003, 06:36 PM-->

punkyjewster41

@Nov 15 2003, 05:40 PM
If you dont recall ( all you people who know the bible "oh so well" to completely rule it out) in genesis two people screwed having a perfect world over for the rest of us a looooooong time ago.

I find it amazing how those that believe in the bible try to use it as an explanation.

what makes you think that i will believe ANY scripture in the bible!?!

you can't use something to verify its own validity if its validity is questioned

So dont bring that " if God is real, why do people die?" crap up again, its simply irrellavent.

no its not irrelevant. its actually one of the strongest points atheists have.

1. God (the Islamo-Judeo-Christian God, specifically) is all-knowing (he knows everything there is to know, past present, and future).
2. God is all-powerful (there is nothing that is beyond God's ability).
3. God is all-good (God will cause good and stop evil if it is within His ability).
4. There is evil in the world.
5. God is either not all-knowing (he doesn't know of the evil), not all powerful (God can't stop the evil in the world) or all-good (God won't stop the evil in the world).

id like to hear the christian response to that^^

I have just chosen to stop trying to convince you of what is true, only a fool reasons with a fool. Ill pray for you though. Cheerio.

 

[lsvtec]

Yes the standard response. Do as you wish, I will never stop hoping that someone opens your eyes.

 

[brian11to1]

dont believe in anything related to god, or the devil... no need to...

 

[Airjockie]

Come on guy's...keep it up...lets make that one more page so the mods can lock this down......

 

[lsvtec]

So far there has been no reason to lock it. As long as this discussion remains as civil as it has been it won't get locked.

 

[jiahanhao]

Originally posted by punkyjewster41@Nov 15 2003, 06:06 PM
I didnt mean that site, i mean the one at the bottom of his post about the ark, cheif. And yes, yes i can prove to you that God exists, if you come to my school with an open un-biased mind ( which you claim to have) and a heart to listen and truely learn.

omnisyllogence:
the perfection of following as a conclusion from oneself as a premise; this appears to be the perfection critical to the success of the ontological argument

(don't try looking it up in the dictionary)

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by punkyjewster41@Nov 15 2003, 07:07 PM
I have just chosen to stop trying to convince you of what is true, only a fool reasons with a fool. Ill pray for you though. Cheerio.

No need to resort to name calling.

I am just presenting factual evidence and am waiting for a rebuttal.

I have just chosen to stop trying to convince you of what is true

Thank god im an athiest

No need to pray for me though, as I believe is useless and besides, I know where I am going when I die.

Rotting away with no self awareness underground in a coffin.

 

[brian11to1]

Originally posted by SolReaver@Nov 15 2003, 07:43 PM
No need to pray for me though, as I believe is useless and besides, I know where I am going when I die.

Rotting away with no self awareness underground in a coffin.

 

[Airjockie]

screw being buried...jus throw me in the oven, burn me up, and pick out a few bones to put in a jar, and sprinkle my ashes somewhere.....

 

[jiahanhao]

The french put their dead in catacombs.. creating magnificent "bone walls"...

that's why noone likes the french

 

[Hexen]

I'm an agnostic.

I personally don't belive in a higher power because studies in science have lead me to far into a scientific explanation of the universe.

But I don't disgaree with people who do belive in something, as long as they do not try to force thier beliefs on me.
I am NOT in favor of removing crosses off war memorials or the 10 commandments from court houses because this country (the US) was founded by a group of highly religous people who drew up the constitution from what they belived in, which made this country strong.