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Running low 12's high 11's!?

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by Frankie P., Jun 1, 2004.

  1. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    Along the lines of the post I saw in the Turbo forum, about the guy wanting to run 12's with boost, I was wondering how I could go about running around the same times all motor. I used to be a fan of boost and still am, but NA is just more street drivable than turbo.

    My setup will be a K20A2, I am currently saving up for the swap right now. The parts I know I will get are:

    Ground Wires
    DC CAI
    DC Header
    Greddy Exhaust
    TODA Engine kit - Specs
    TODA Clutch Kit - Specs
    TODA Individual Throttle Bodies - Specs


    I am also thinking Skunk2 Cam gears and Skunk2 Intake manifold. I am still thinking I would need more, but not too sure what. As for the suspension set up I am going to be running the Tein Flex Kit, and rubber I am not too sure yet, but I want to run 17 inch rims. If I am still unable to get the time I want I may use nitrous, but I would prefer not too.
     
  2. law195

    law195 Junior Member

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    That's a start, but you'll have to go with lightweight and high compression pistons. Strenghtened crank would help to before you blow your motor. and strip your car of all exccess weight. No big stereo for you. I'm talking seats and carpet. It'll be tough to get 12s with an NA motor. PS And a big throttle body. I can't remember what else you call it right now, damn brain fart.
     
  3. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    12's shouldn't be too hard with the K20A2; with just the engine kit I am sure I can hit mid to high 13's, then again it is FWD. Well, the bad boy will be "daily" driven, more like a weekend warrior I should say. I still want the looks and sounds, planning on adding a body kit and cf hood, with a big stereo. Nitrous would probably be in the question then?
     
  4. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    umm what kinda car is this going into? that matters....
     
  5. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    I should have mentioned that I am going to be putting it into my EP3 (02SI.) I don't think it comes with LSD, but I am pretty sure I found a company that offers the LSD. I can set my gears somewhat lower as well, I don't care too much about top speed, but I do want to get up to 150. Shouldn't be asking too much with a 6 speed Tranny.
     
  6. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    That's a porky car to be asking even high 12's all-motor with a big stereo and bodykit and shit, let alone full interior. I think you should just go FI. RevHard makes a kit that made 455 whp on Hasport's K20A powered EK. Of course, they only ran a 13 flat because they spun first thru fourth gears. Lol, 13 flat @ 115 mph. Wow. Talk about needing slicks.
     
  7. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    I don't think that the body kit is that much heaveir if at all than the stock parts. Also 300 WHP is what I am aiming for, and I am sure it is achieveable all motor, because the with the engine kit and bolt-ons, 229 WHP is achieved with a higher redline. An S2k probably has 200-220 WHP and runs a 14.1 stock, with much lower torque numbers. Granted it is a RWD, but I am even willing to make the EP RWD, don't care whether it is rice or not.
     
  8. hybridsol

    hybridsol Senior Member

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    i can't believe i'm the only one to catch this. you can't use a skunk2 intake manifold with itbs, to add to this the dc header sucks, you can't use the cai unless you get a plentum made for the itbs, in which case it'd be almost pointless to even have them. also the skunk2 cams suck compaired to the toda cams, but those toda cams aren't going to make you power till like 5k, because they are vtec killer cams. Also with the money it is going to take you to do this, you might as well buy an sti or sumthin along those lines that is actually worth putting ungodly amounts of money into. Not tryin to rain on your parade but its going to be a bitch to get that set up to run low 12s specially with full interior and such
     
  9. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    The point is, just go FI. The K-series hasn't been around long enough for a "formula" for all motor to be found yet. If you want to drag race, get turbo. You'll be faster and happier and you wont hit "the wall" that you will with all motor. And BTW, hybrid sol, the toda engine kit utilizes real VTEC cams, not VTEC killer cams. They make them for the K20, but the Toda engine kit uses regular VTEC cams with their proprietary specs to make mad power.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    What is an itbs? Also, why is it pointless to have a header and CAI, wouldn't you need a better intake/exhaust system with all the extra power I am going to be putting into the car? Why exactly does the DC Header and Intake suck? Also making power at 5k RPMS is not a bad thing, I highly doubt I will shift below that powerband while racing. Like I said, I will be willing to use nitrous, just incase I happen to be losing.
     
  11. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    ITB's are individual throttle bodies. If you have them, you wont need an intake system. The Comptech header is wayyyyy better than the DC piece, but it's quite spendy. I think hytech might have one in production or in develeopment for the K as well, and hytech = :thumbsup:

    And frankie, that whole thing about not making power until 5k is bs, he was talking about VTEC killer cams that dont use a small lobe. Those Toda engine kit cams make great low end torque on the little lobes and sick high rpm power on the bigguns. Just make sure you have adequate fuel tuning for your nitrous setup to go with those nasty toda cams. That is, if'n you decide to spray. I think you can hit low all-motor 13's definitely with the Toda engine kit and ITBs with a good header. 12's are gonna be hard to break into, but i'll bet if you put together some good suspension pieces like traction bars and stiff rear springs with a good LSD, you can pull it off. 12's are a nice place to be, shit your pants fast indeed, and to achieve it with nothing more than ambient air pressure commands some respect, that's for sure.
     
  12. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    Thanks DOHC, now I understand better.



    Gotta love the K-series. Along the lines of suspension is the Tein flex kit, a good enough suspension kit? Also what kind of rubber would you suggest?
     
  13. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    Tein is nice for road racing, but if you're looking for some nice drag suspension you should look into Skunk2's lowering springs and buy yourself their rear drag launch springs. I think the regualr springs are nice for all around driving, a bit stiff, but good. Match them with Koni Yellows and adjust the shocks accordingly. The S2 rear drag launch springs have a 1000lb/in spring rate and you can switch them in when you go to the strip and adjust the Konis to dampen them pretty sufficiently. Skunk2 claims that their drag launch springs can shave off up to .3 off your 60' times. Pair those with some traction bars (i'm not sure if anyone makes them for the EP chassis yet) and some sticky tires like BFG g-force drag radials and I'll bet you could be laying down some real nice times.
     
  14. MXDesa

    MXDesa Senior Member

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    Being a owner of the new SI as well, i think that with the money the new K20 engine your looking for is going to cost you, it is very possible to put that 4.5-6.0 grand into the regular K20 you already have. I have built another EP3 SI very mildly and that motor responds very well to simple add ons. I cant imagine how well i would respond to Forced induction Just my opinion, i decided to keep the I-Vtec K20 already in mine. Best of luck with the route you decide to take.
     
  15. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    actually with the toda itbs you will still have an intake system; it still utilizes a plenum like the nissan skyline intake manifolds.
    [​IMG]
    getting to 300whp na is going to be kind of hard on that engine, but im pretty sure you can get around 260, at least with the rsx type-s motor for the civic k20 motor is built for economy(has vtec-e style system)
     
  16. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    Oh, nice. I did not know that. Cool. :spin:

    Somebody laid down 300 whp on an RSX type S with the Toda engine kit in some magazine earlier this year or late last year. Not sure who it was though...
     
  17. Kolumbo69

    Kolumbo69 Senior Member

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    Well seen as you have been checking out toda you could always get toda's forged pistons kit for the k series and increase the compression or order some from a company with a bigger bore and get some more displacement. Thats should give your engine a big boost in hp, except it'll cost yah.
     
  18. Frankie P.

    Frankie P. Senior Member

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    The reason I am leaning towards TEIN, is because the car will still be street driven, just not everyday, it will be my "SHOWY" car as well. Also as for not building the stock engine, is because:

    1. Not real VTEC.
    2. I want to the tranny from the A2
    3. Swapping the whole valvetrain and tranny are just a little less
    4. I can start with a whole new engine

    I already have Bolt-on's in my EP3, and don't see too much happening all motor with that engine, like I said it is "mini-vtec."



    What kind of intake system exactly? Like just the CAI or an Intake manifold as well?



    I am not too worried about money, I am currently paying off a lot of debt, then going to a connection, who can eek up my score about 100 after everything is paid off, then I am most likely getting a loan. My SI is really banged up right now, I am going to spend about 5-6 grand just fixing the body damage and adding the body kit. I might still end up paying more, because I want to fix my interior up a bit and change the color to white. I am somewhat figuring to spend 10K on the body and interior/sound and another 10-15k on the engine, I can get the swap done for about 6K which isn't too bad considering the engine itself is about 5k.

    Bigger pistons is a great idea, but haven't found any I like yet, TODA seems good, but is an all TODA set-up really the best? I would think it is like more a sound system, if you mix and match products you get the best performance. E.G. JL Audio subs, Fosgate amp, Alpine head unit etc.
     
  19. dohch22a4

    dohch22a4 Senior Member

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    Talk to Jeff @ import builders, i think he makes IB spec pistons for the K, stock size or overbore.
     
  20. KCREX

    KCREX Member

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    so you are going to pay off alot of debt then go right back in to debt for 20k? WOW
    and how is your hook up going to up your score 100 points? I wouldn't mind another 100 points.
     
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