the Governator Scores one in my book

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It's great to see Ahnold doing something instead of calling people girly-men...

Now, I'll respond to Prowler:

"i was talking to a friend about the abortion issus in the election debates. his view on the idea of abortion legally only for rapes is this: why have a tragic accident result in two? why end a horrible experience with another one? there are thousands of couples who cannot physically have children who would love to adopt one. why not make a horrible experience result in one that is good for some people?

just what he said. i agree. "

Are you kidding me? How many children are there around the world for these people to adopt? Too many to count.

"i remember hearing that with all the abortions that have occured, we easily could've killed multiple future presidents. "

Again, how many more people should we have on this planet. We can barely manage ourselves. I won't even go into how many potential "osama's/lawyers/assholes/ricers" we've also decimated. Just an absurd thing to say.

"someone said earlier that if we have the ability to do something, we should"

Now you're just not thinking. Of course if we do anything and everything, we'll be harming people. But if we have the ability to do some good: cure cancer/etc , then we should. And there's no god so it doesn't matter...

"even illegal drugs. there's laws against them for a reason"

The reason, survey says! : according to christians and the church: it makes baby jesus cry. I guess I'll end all of my arguments by saying this, our culture was affected by the church/christianity/pilgrims (note: craziest F%#s in england, had to leave because they hated everyone and loved burning people). This is why drugs are illegal. The church didn't like it, so they shunned it.

But I'm also not saying all drugs are good. Crack, X, and a bunch of other stuff is harmful and can potentially kill us. Now, pot hasn't killed anyone ever from just smoking it, *maybe* you could die from lung cancer but you dont see that happening every day.


And "moral issues"? the problem is a lot of people can't grow up and let go of father God's hand. Remove the training wheels and join us.
 
so everyone that is religious needs to grow up?
lol, i almost thought you were serious. especially about that 'church has banned drugs in the usa' line. great stuff man.
while we're at it, let's nuke nyc. sure, innocent people will be hurt, or even good politicians, but hey we'll get some raghead terrorists too.
your logic is wonderful.
 
Again, how many more people should we have on this planet.
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oh, i don't know how i missed this gem. that's golden.

let's kill all the kids now because we dont' want our world filling up.

out of all the people since 6000 years ago, if they were all alive, each person would get 1.4 acres of land. that's inhabitable land. not deserts, antartica, or even north dakota ;) . we're not running out of space.
 
i didn't say i was against stem cell research. i am against a lot of the methods used to gather those cells. the research is fine to me if the source for it is 'moral' (to me, again just my views)
the results from the research could be amazing. but if it's at the cost of millions of aborted fetus', then i think you need to balance the cost over the benefit.
my apoligies for saying your opinion was crap. i just think some of the reasonign was flawed.
 
Originally posted by Prowler+Oct 19 2004, 09:11 PM-->
Prowler @ Oct 19 2004 said:
so everyone that is religious needs to grow up?
lol, i almost thought you were serious. especially about that 'church has banned drugs in the usa' line. great stuff man.
while we're at it, let's nuke nyc. sure, innocent people will be hurt, or even good politicians, but hey we'll get some raghead terrorists too.
your logic is wonderful.
[post=404969]Quoted post[/post]​
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Uh-oh, I expressed a belief. I should shut up. Seriously? Yes, I believe religion is not a necessity. I was not involved in it, and I'm no worse than someone who has. And I can't believe it, too much i just won't accept (don't call this a lack of faith).

And now you're knee-jerking has pulled something from the back of your mind. Nazi? Commie? Nuke! That's a sensational word to use. Yeah, let's nuke something! When did I say that?

If you want to reply, don't skip around the points. Tell me: why is pot bad and why does it get people into trouble? Because it is illegal, but why is it illegal? Because it's bad? hmm....

Prowler@Oct 19 2004, 09:13 PM
Again, how many more people should we have on this planet.
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oh, i don't know how i missed this gem. that's golden.

let's kill all the kids now because we dont' want our world filling up.

out of all the people since 6000 years ago, if they were all alive, each person would get 1.4 acres of land. that's inhabitable land. not deserts, antartica, or even north dakota ;) . we're not running out of space.
[post=404971]Quoted post[/post]​
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I'm saying that 1 starving child is enough for me. Of all of the aborted children, how many would be adopted? Isn't it strange that even with them (aborted) we have orphanages?
 
I totally agree with tommy, republicans are all for adoption, but how many replublicans actually adopt? Yes, there are couples that can not have babies, so they adopt, but a shit load more can fuck and fuck and pop out babies left and right. So your telling me, when you get married, your going to look at adoption before trying to have a child of your own.

One of my good freinds in middle school was adopted. She was an great person, and extremly nice. Would she still be here if stem cell research would have been legal? Yes she would still be here. This does not ban adoption. Those that do not beleive that this or that is right will keep the baby.

If you want to use the President or Osoma BS, put it this way. What about all those that use codoms or Birth control? This is preventing the creation of life, "the way God designed it" process from not happening. What is the diffrence here? Any type of birth conrol, like getting your tubes tied, vasectime(sp?) condom, pill, sponge, ect, would be messing up the cycle of life. However, we do not just have sex to produce children. We fuck because it is fun.

What about your in college, your having sex, but you do it smart, and you were a condom, but it breaks. You just fucked your partners college carrier. What now?

My mom has been sick most of her life. In the past 10 or so years, her health has gone downhill. She has been on medication for 20 years, and in the process, had killed her amune system. If she were to get pregenat (which is still possible at her age) both her and the baby would die. Is an abortion allowed there?

There are thousands of people on transplant lists that are basicly waiting for something that will never happen. There is a one in a million chance someone is a match, and then they have to hope that the one of those 300 people living in the US dies before them and opts to have there organs donated

(How many people have those boxes checked off on their ID's, and have told realitives about their plans? I am guessing not alot)


Alright, last edit, because I want to add to what blanco said, because he brings up a good point. A woman has around 300 eggs. Every month, the woman has her period. If she has lets say 3 kids, now that means that 297 cells are never used. Why not use them for practical use. Collect the egg, mix it with some sperm, and save a life. If the women decides she doesn't want this and she wants to have the traditional periods, so be it, its her choice. For a woman that wants to save a life, there you go. This process doesn't need to destroy a life-to-be to save one.
 
Originally posted by asmallsol@Oct 19 2004, 10:04 PM
There are thousands of people on transplant lists that are basicly waiting for something that will never happen. There is a one in a million chance someone is a match, and then they have to hope that the one of those 300 people living in the US dies before them and opts to have there organs donated

(How many people have those boxes checked off on their ID's, and have told realitives about their plans? I am guessing not alot)
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:wave: They aren't gonna do me any good when I keel over.
 
maybe i didn't make it clear. once a sperm fertilizes an egg, i view it as a human in it's earliest stages.
so regardless, if it was done naturally or in a fertilization clinic, an embryo zygote, fetus, whatever, it is a life to me.
now go reread what i state and you'll understand where i stand on the issuse more clearly.
whoever was asking, have you had a friend get behind the wheel high and get in a fatal accident? even tho the accident is the actual death dealer, the pot is the catalyst in everything. i think if the situation happened to you, you would blame the pot.
 
Originally posted by Prowler@Oct 19 2004, 04:44 PM
whoa, big difference from medical care or even organ transplants and genetically creating a whole 'being' or person. aka the cloning issue. to say medical treatment is playing god is ignorant. a machine that helps your lungs work is playing god? whatever.
and where does the distinction between a 'clump of cells' and an unborn child begin? sorry, you cannot specify a day or even a week between the two.
i'm not going to get this into a religious debate. i'm just going to state what i believe and why. the bible held a man as a murderer if he hurt a woman's unborn baby or killed a pregnant woman. eye for an eye. there god views an embryo/fetus/whatever as a life and highly valuable. i take the same stand. therefore i don't think stem cell research is correct if their only source for stem cells is from aborted fetus'. if you can get them from humans who dont' have to die and you want to grow a liver or spleen, so be it.
i was talking to a friend about the abortion issus in the election debates. his view on the idea of abortion legally only for rapes is this: why have a tragic accident result in two? why end a horrible experience with another one? there are thousands of couples who cannot physically have children who would love to adopt one. why not make a horrible experience result in one that is good for some people?
just what he said. i agree.
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Some of that is kind of drastic. Its humane to keep someone alive, not god like IMO.

I agree to an extent on your view of abortions. In some very rare cases 1st trimester only, I believe they have the option, but only in an extreme emergency state, like asmallsol said with her mom.

Now to counter your statement on playing god.


My god mother is the result of her mom being raped by her step dad, and she grew up in foster family, knowing it all along and she is by far the nicest person I know.

TO carry on the tradition of being against abortions, she has adopted 2 kids since, 1 that had cancer at 3 months old and is now 5 years old, as a regular kid.

From what you said, since keeping him on life support for 1 year of his life, and giving him dozens of drugs, etc, to keep him alive was playing god.

Then, I for one, would do it.


I support stem cell research to an extent, cloning is a nono IMO..

BTW I'm a practicing catholic.
 
Originally posted by Slammed89Integra@Oct 20 2004, 01:52 AM
only in an extreme emergency state, like asmallsol said with her mom.
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umm...I am a guy
 
From what you said, since keeping him on life support for 1 year of his life, and giving him dozens of drugs, etc, to keep him alive was playing god.

Then, I for one, would do it.
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?

I fully believe in life support. I said that earlier. Medical technology is wonderful. Whoever else said medical treatments, organ transplants, life support is playing God was not me.
My stand is just against using aborted fetus's in stem cell research.
 
Stop imposing your morals and beliefs on other people. If you don't like it, don't participate, but that doesn't give you the right to control other people's lives. Your life Your decision. You want to give feti to stem cell research, your decision, you're wife can object, tahts ok, but you can't judge others with your moral standard.
 
impose my beliefs on people? every time i've given reasons for what i'm saying,it has been 'this is my belief' not 'this is how it is'
how dare you make this completely unsupported accusation?
 
to hell with it. any debate that gets religion and politics involved turns into a mud slinging mess like this.
first, i'm not closing this because i want to say i have the final word. i don't think my idea is any more 'right' than someone elses view on the matter. i have reasons for my view as everyone else does for theirs. too bad some can't express this maturely.
second, threads like this do nothing but get members pissed off about each other and that hurts this community.
want to start another thread on how stem cell research works? go right ahead. keep it civil.
:locked3:
 
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