transmission swap

[davets]

so ive got a 91 base line civic hatch with a 4speed manual tranny and i bought a 91 dx 5speed manual tranny for it.

a few questions:
1.do i need to pull the engine or just unbolt the tranny?
2.i've searched a few other forums and they are uncertain as to whether or not I need to get new hubs/knuckles/other shit for it to work properly - but ive also read/heard that i can use what is in there now?
3.ive got the d15xx engine and as far as ive read it is supposed to be the dual point injection, but mine is clearly the multi point injection- so who knows if that will have anything to do with anything?
4.ive read that the only transmission that wouldnt fit is the '88 dx and thats because it has a different spline count? but then i've also read that the 4speed has a different spline count.. so?
5.what other parts do i need to replace (clutch, TO bearing, etc) do i need to replace?

if you couldnt tell already im a little bit lost, and the arrival of my transmission is approaching, so bleh

help is apperciated

 

[phunky.buddha]

If you loosen the engine mounts you can probably get away with tilting the entire assembly and just sliding the transmission off.

I'd have to look it up to be 100% sure, but I'm pretty positive that the STD hubs (if that's what you have) are smaller than most of the 5 speed hubs. Your best bet is to change them out for DX/LX/EX/Si hubs, but if you don't want to, then you can make hybird axles with your current axles' outer cups and the new axles. I am a bit confused though... more later.

The STD Civic engine should be DPFI. If you have two injectors on the throttle body and no fuel rail running across the top of the engine with 4 injectors, then you have DPFI. If you have an MPFI engine, who knows- it's an indicator that someone's already messed with the engine and/or transmission in your car, and then there's no way to really tell what you have in it.

If you truly have a 91 with a 91 transmission in it, then you'll want the 90-91 transmission. The 88 has MORE splines than the 89-91, and it uses a different flywheel size than the 90-91. I'm not sure about the 4 speed spline count.

Yeah- go ahead and replace all of those if you can afford to. Depending on what transmission you got and which flywheel you currently have- you might have to make your own hybrid clutch setup. Good info in this link here:

http://www.thezcr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8018

I'm lost because the engines that came bolted up to the 4 speed transmission should all be DPFI (pretty sure). If someone swapped the engine in your car, all bets are off as to which transmission and clutch parts are under your hood. Chances are that the engine may have been replaced and bolted up to the stock transmission though, and if that's the case- then no the engine type doesn't matter, at least not beyond the flywheel size, which will determine which clutch setup you want to run.

 

[davets]

ok, so I went out and looked at the car a little closer today to realize something. It is a DPFI setup, I dont know why I thought it wasn't

Anywho, engine code is D15b1
transmission code is SL3

damn, more work then enticipated- espically since i dont know how to do it.. so does anyone have any advice on how to get hubs off/ on/ where are they located? and if its essential for the swap?

i got the car for cheap and i want to try and keep it as cheap as possible, only reason i'm swapping the tranny is that the one now sounds like something is rubbing sand paper together under my car when the transmission is under load, so bleh

thanks for the help

 

[phyregod]

I've done a few honda transmissions by unbolting all of the motor mounts, then lowering the transmission below the car and jacking the engine up a little, tilting it at a pretty good angle and pulling it out from the bottom. But that way is a HUGE pain in the rear. If you have a cherry picker, I'd reccomend pulling the motor clean out of the car. Its an easy procedure and will save alot of cursing and nuckle-busting. Its just alot easier than doing it while its in the car.

If you do it while its in the car, unbolt everything except the top two transmission bolts before you unbolt the motor mounts. Don't forget the pesky little dust shield.

I'll have to further look into the axles, but they should be the same. I know the Si had larger axles than the dx, but I believe the rest share the same axles/nuckles. I'll do a little more research.

 

[davets]

Thanks you guys; phreygod, youve been nothing more then helpful with this entire thing.

Yea my dads gonna rent a lift as part of my 'all inclusive car' x-mas present (new tires, spark plugs/wires, help with putting in the new tranny) so thats no problem with pulling the engine. Just didn't know which would be easier. And then I've got all the tools possibly needed to pull an engine, hell my house has seen this happen like four times, my dad with his two saab sonets and a galaxy 500 wayyy back in the day.

I found this at Honda-Tech.com

 

[CoreyR]

as long as you use the axles from the 4spd you dont have to change anything. all the inners on 88-91 civic axles were the same.

 

[davets]

Quoted post[/post]]
as long as you use the axles from the 4spd you dont have to change anything. all the inners on 88-91 civic axles were the same.

no doubt/bump for more info

 

[phyregod]

Quoted post[/post]]
I could be very mistaken but I believe that it's only the CRX HF that has different sized outers. I know that DX and Si are the same.

The outers don't matter, he is putting a dx trans in a std. Its the inners that would pose the problem, if any. But I'm pretty sure the inners are the same. Its hard to find out for certain online because unless its an Si or vtec model, everyone just rips out the d-series and swaps in something else.

 

[jlicrx]

Quoted post[/post]]
I could be very mistaken but I believe that it's only the CRX HF that has different sized outers. I know that DX and Si are the same.

Civic STD (4 speed, no right side mirror, no rear wiper, black panel between tail lights) model has same smaller hubs as the CRX HF and uses the same axles

 

[phunky.buddha]

Quoted post[/post]]
ok, so I went out and looked at the car a little closer today to realize something. It is a DPFI setup, I dont know why I thought it wasn't

Anywho, engine code is D15b1
transmission code is SL3

damn, more work then enticipated- espically since i dont know how to do it.. so does anyone have any advice on how to get hubs off/ on/ where are they located? and if its essential for the swap?

i got the car for cheap and i want to try and keep it as cheap as possible, only reason i'm swapping the tranny is that the one now sounds like something is rubbing sand paper together under my car when the transmission is under load, so bleh

thanks for the help

It's not that hard to pull off the transmission swap. If you want to go with the larger axles of the new transmission, then you have to swap the hubs. It's as simple as removing your original steering knuckles and replacing them with DX/LX/EX/Si knuckles. Just swap the entire steering knuckle assembly. Since you have the D15B1, you most likely have the original engine/transmission setup in your car, since the D15B1 and 4 speed was the factory Civic STD setup. If you're going to buy a new clutch, you'll probably be safe in assuming you have the 91 transmission and flywheel.

Quoted post[/post]]
I've done a few honda transmissions by unbolting all of the motor mounts, then lowering the transmission below the car and jacking the engine up a little, tilting it at a pretty good angle and pulling it out from the bottom. But that way is a HUGE pain in the rear. If you have a cherry picker, I'd reccomend pulling the motor clean out of the car. Its an easy procedure and will save alot of cursing and nuckle-busting. Its just alot easier than doing it while its in the car.

If you do it while its in the car, unbolt everything except the top two transmission bolts before you unbolt the motor mounts. Don't forget the pesky little dust shield.

I'll have to further look into the axles, but they should be the same. I know the Si had larger axles than the dx, but I believe the rest share the same axles/nuckles. I'll do a little more research.

Removing the transmission from the car without removing the engine really isn't that bad. Just make sure you can get the front end of the car up high enough, and that you're able to loosen the engine mounts enough to tilt everything down.

The Si and DX had the exact same axles and knuckles. The EX is slightly different, but uses the same hub size- and the HF/STD used the smaller axles.

Quoted post[/post]]
as long as you use the axles from the 4spd you dont have to change anything. all the inners on 88-91 civic axles were the same.

and

Quoted post[/post]]
I could be very mistaken but I believe that it's only the CRX HF that has different sized outers. I know that DX and Si are the same.

The HF and STD have the same smaller outers. Every other trim is the same with the larger outers.

Quoted post[/post]]
The outers don't matter, he is putting a dx trans in a std. Its the inners that would pose the problem, if any. But I'm pretty sure the inners are the same. Its hard to find out for certain online because unless its an Si or vtec model, everyone just rips out the d-series and swaps in something else.

Nope, and it's easy to find out for certain online... or just from experience. There are also no USDM 91 Civic VTEC models.

 

[davets]

Quoted post[/post]]
It's not that hard to pull off the transmission swap. If you want to go with the larger axles of the new transmission, then you have to swap the hubs.

Quoted post[/post]]
as long as you use the axles from the 4spd you dont have to change anything. all the inners on 88-91 civic axles were the same.

so let me see if i understand a few things/have a few questions
1. I can use the STD axles and not have to change anything? Just bolt up and go?
2. If I use the 5 speed's larger axles I need to change the steering knuckles(which btw I have no idea what those are, possibly the cv joints?).
3. What are the pros/cons of using the 5 speed's larger axles?
4. And for the sake of keeping this simple and cheap and as safe as my beater gets, which do you guys prefer i do, assuming my previous statements are right.

thanks so much for all the info thus far. I've been looking online and having trouble finding the differences in all of this as it seems almost everyone who has done it or went to do it A. didnt. or B. didnt do any research thats posted and substantial enough to follow (for me at least). Most of what i've found is all b-series related swap's and crap.

and yes i have the STD, hahaha one side mirror and all, the previous owner even did the service of putting on an exhust that sticks out about 8 inches from the right side(its also crooked), painted almost everything he could with what looks like white nail polish and chopped the radio harness, so i had to rewire all of that i love this car

 

[phunky.buddha]

Sounds like the previous owner was a loser.

I've never played with an HF or STD transmission, so I couldn't tell you for sure if the inner axle cups are the same- but if they are (pretty sure they are) then you can use your current axles and hubs with the new transmission. So yes, assuming the inners fit into the new transmission (they should) then you can just bolt in the new transmission and go.

If you use the 5 speed's larger axles, then yes you need to change the steering knuckles. The steering knuckles are the large chunks of cast metal that support your front wheels. They support the wheel, brake structure, and give something for your control arms to attach to. You could rebuild the knuckle with a larger hub, but it's easier to just swap the entire knuckle instead of tearing it apart. No, it's not the CV joint- the CV joint is the outer joint on your axle.

Pros- more splines and larger diameter means that you can handle more power. If you plan on modding further, it's always better to have more strength in your drivetrain. If all you want to do is swap to the better transmission, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The axles aren't going to be handling any more power than you already have (same engine, right?) so they should hold up just fine with the new transmission. There really aren't any cons to using the larger axles other than your initial cost.

Assuming you're not going to swap to another D series engine and turbocharge it or seriously crank up your power level through another means, it would be better (cheaper) for you to use the stock axles and knuckles.

Sounds like the previous owner was a real winner.

 

[davets]

sa-weeet

tranny swap coming jan 1st 2006

haha eff this car, the shell is more or less useless. rust on the back half of the car/ already has new rockers and door panels. the car has 170000k on it; a.k.a. useless pos to even think about building the engine/ swapping

and yea the previous owner now owns a 97 jetta that when he bought it was decent, and well you guessed it, its got more homemade paint schemes and a nice bee's hive on the end of the exhust