1 word.... WOW!

[K2e2vin]

He needs to switch the turbo and supercharger around and just run a full-time twincharge setup. Way more efficient.

Also, the point of twincharging, or supercharging, is not making more power, but quicker spool and instant torque off the line(VERY helpful for AWD cars). Though, I must say a B-series would have been a better choice(more torque).

 

[awptickes]

Honda-Tech - View Single Post - Fully built AWD EG Reinforced wagovan tranny + GT28/40

Lol, my favourite.

 

[cjvictoria]

lol nice

 

[newb]

I dont get how switchin the turbo and supercharger would be better. Wouldnt it damage to the turbo to be constantly boosting into the supercharger, which wouldnt be generating as much boost? Kinda like boosting into a closed throttle plate.

 

[K2e2vin]

The supercharger will constantly "consume" any boost output by the turbo, and total boost output is actually higher. The supercharger constantly runs at a lower boost rate though(like 6psi) I forgot the formulas to calculate it(its actually pretty simple).

"Boost" comes from cramming more air into the engine that it'll take, which isn't really any different than the turbo output pushing against the supercharger...only now that since you have a supercharger at low boost constantly, there will be higher exhaust energy to turn the turbocharger(thus quicker spool). The supercharger is compressing compressed air; so boost level is never lower than what the supercharger can output.

 

[newb]

Lol, I gotta slosh taht around in my head for a bit. The gears are turnin but the teeth arent meshin yet.

 

[awptickes]

A supercharger compresses whatever is fed into it. Let's say at a 3:1 ratio.

You feed 5 psi into a supercharger, and out comes 15 psi. That's an over-simplification, but it'll help you visualize and understand it.

 

[99sidude]

The thing about a supercharger is that it's just like a turbo, in that the amount of air it can flow is limited. It's like comparing 10psi from a t25 to 10psi out of a gt35. Chances are that when you are at full boost on that turbo, the airflow rate is greater than the efficient range of that supercharger. I believe that blower is an Eaton M45, meaning it's only efficient to about 200hpwhere that turbo is a gt28, good to 350 or so hp. This means that turbo can flow much more air efficiently than that turbo. Gonna be like reducing the outlet of your leaf blower down to a drinking straw.

 

[awptickes]

You didn't look at the flow of the SC he's using, did you?

 

[K2e2vin]

The supercharger does not have to outflow the turbo; it's not supposed to. I highly doubt that m45 will outflow that turbo. In a twincharge setup, with the turbo blowing into the supercharger, the supercharger makes the D16 seem like a bigger engine. Intake flow requirement and exhaust energy/output all increases with just the supercharger; hence allowing you to run larger turbos with less lag. Stick a turbo on there, and you're cramming air into the supercharger(boost), thus the supercharger's ambient air pressure is up, and your total output(as described above about the boost ratio) goes up.

For example; 10psi out of the turbo going into the inlet of the "10psi" supercharger means the air coming out of the supercharger is about 20psi(there's actually more calculations involved, but assume this for argument's sake).

Many axial turbines and even two-stage centrifugal turbojets already run off of this principle. They even built a special turbocharger("hydracharger") that compresses the air twice(two compressors back to back, one blowing into the other).

Here's an article about the hydracharger(also explains the benefits of running two compressors in series): http://sportcompactcar.automotive.com/69849/0306-sccp-hydracharger-future-turbos/index.html

 

[99sidude]

maybe i'm brainfarting. time to whip out the fluid mechanics book.

 

[newb]

A supercharger compresses whatever is fed into it. Let's say at a 3:1 ratio.

You feed 5 psi into a supercharger, and out comes 15 psi. That's an over-simplification, but it'll help you visualize and understand it.

The supercharger does not have to outflow the turbo; it's not supposed to. I highly doubt that m45 will outflow that turbo. In a twincharge setup, with the turbo blowing into the supercharger, the supercharger makes the D16 seem like a bigger engine. Intake flow requirement and exhaust energy/output all increases with just the supercharger; hence allowing you to run larger turbos with less lag. Stick a turbo on there, and you're cramming air into the supercharger(boost), thus the supercharger's ambient air pressure is up, and your total output(as described above about the boost ratio) goes up.

For example; 10psi out of the turbo going into the inlet of the "10psi" supercharger means the air coming out of the supercharger is about 20psi(there's actually more calculations involved, but assume this for argument's sake).

Many axial turbines and even two-stage centrifugal turbojets already run off of this principle. They even built a special turbocharger("hydracharger") that compresses the air twice(two compressors back to back, one blowing into the other).

Here's an article about the hydracharger(also explains the benefits of running two compressors in series): Hydracharger & Future Turbos - Sport Compact Car Magazine

Ahh, ok! I was thinkin somewhat along these lines, but I didnt think it was right. Thanks to both of you for the explanation.