B20B w/ Type R GSR Trans w/LSD performance upgrades

Shook

Backroad Bandit
Ok, I’ve poured through old threads trying to find exactly what I’m looking for, so please don’t bash me for starting a new thread.

I am new to the Honda (not performance) world, so be patient with me. I’m absorbing as much as possible. There’s a lot to know!

What I have acquired is a very clean ‘99 Hatch that has been built with love. As far as the motor:
B20B w/ P75-11 head
Type R GSR LSD tranny
P28 ECU Chipped and mapped by Jason Waters out of Atlanta

This girl revs quickly through the gears and seems content with shifting at 5500-6k. 60 mph @ 3500
Not a daily driver. My plan is to take her to the road course in Bowling Green KY and play. Got a buddy with an S2000, has me hooked. All that being said, (for now) I simply want to pull all I can out of her, shy of busting open the block.
I have two thoughts:
Fuel pump, throttle body, intake, injectors, and cams. Have the ECU remapped
Or
B16a (I think) and set up for VTEC.
I don’t necessarily care to get into the in’s and out’s of how and why a VTEC head swap on a B20B works yet. I’ve read quite a bit on that topic already. I know a person can drop a stack pretty quick on one though. I will say, I have no false illusions of turning 8k rpms. That’s not my goal. I’ve read that you can tune the VTEC to come in at 4k if you desired. Or wherever is most affective.

For the moment, I’d love to know which option makes the most sense for the motor, and for track play. I’ve seen a lot of info on rod bolts and piston swaps to go to VTEC. I’ve got the budget, I just don’t want the car to be down while the blocks being worked right now. I really do love driving backroads in her. I have more questions, but I’ll stop here. Thanks for reading this and for any info.
 

CAFROG

Honda Minion
VIP
I am guessing that you have basic bolt ons like a header, intake, exhaust. A decent upgrade would be fuel pump, fuel injectors and E85. This will cause you to get retuned but E85 with bigger injectors will produce more horsepower for sure. Cam's can give you some horsepower gains as well. If you have basic bolt ons, it's hard to get more horsepower without getting retuned.

If you are planning on tracking it, look into brake upgrades whether it's just performance pads or swap the brakes over. You should also check all of your bushings because decent bushings are a must for tracking. Decent Wheel and Tire combo will help a lot too. Some guys run 15 x 8 Wheels but some run 15 x 7 and some guys run a combo of both.
 

Briansol

Admins
Staff member
Admin
VIP
The vtec head swap is the best bang for the buck. you won't get 40-50 more hp for 1000 ish anywhere else (expect maybe a fab-job turbo kit)

If you're planning to track it, look into the rules of the class you plan to participate in. Last thing you want to do is spend 500 bucks to be put in the ferarri and 911 class and have a bad time getting lapped on lap 2. :X

If it's just for fun, it's easier.


focus here first:
Brakes brakes brakes.
Suspension.
tires
lightening it up (ditch stuff you don't need, like back seats, interior, subs, etc)


you have enough power already to get around.
when you've hit the limit of your power because your driving has improved, that's when it's time to dump money elsewhere.


Whatever you do, we're here to help and look forward to seeing the car progress! post pics!
 

TurboMirage

YEEAAAHHH
VIP
seat time in the car as-is will be your best investment. it costs nothing but entry fees.

your car is comparable to my veloster turbo for power (not torque though lol) except I have alot more weight. brakes are a bigger point for me even with stock power.

don't push it 10/10ths the first few times until you get a real feel. you'll know what the car needs, if it needs brakes get better pads/rotors/lines/fluid. seldom do you need to increase the size of the brakes to get results.

the s2000 in stock form is already a formidable touring car. don't kill yourself trying to keep up.


FWIW, when my VT was bolted/setup for autox properly and i was a bit greener in 2015 i was slower than my fastest lap times with the car as it sits now... with nothing but 200tw tires and upgraded pads/fluid.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
I am guessing that you have basic bolt ons like a header, intake, exhaust. A decent upgrade would be fuel pump, fuel injectors and E85. This will cause you to get retuned but E85 with bigger injectors will produce more horsepower for sure. Cam's can give you some horsepower gains as well. If you have basic bolt ons, it's hard to get more horsepower without getting retuned.

If you are planning on tracking it, look into brake upgrades whether it's just performance pads or swap the brakes over. You should also check all of your bushings because decent bushings are a must for tracking. Decent Wheel and Tire combo will help a lot too. Some guys run 15 x 8 Wheels but some run 15 x 7 and some guys run a combo of both.
I do have CAI, headers and exhaust. Cars on blox full body coil overs. Rear lower control arms, camber arms, and sub frame connector. Adding rear SI disc brakes, PCI spherical trailing arm bushing and toe arm with braided brake lines now. I’ve heard that stock injectors are only running at 50% capability. Mine are new OEM.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
I do have CAI, headers and exhaust. Cars on blox full body coil overs. Rear lower control arms, camber arms, and sub frame connector. Adding rear SI disc brakes, PCI spherical trailing arm bushing and toe arm with braided brake lines now. I’ve heard that stock injectors are only running at 50% capability. Mine are new OEM.
Sorry. Also running SI front and rear sway bars, slotted rotors up front, back will just be stock SI rotors for now, also have strut tower braces for front and rear to bolt on. Car handles to a dream already on 205/45/16 nittos. So if I decide to go VTEC, is there a post that brakes it down? Y’all are great. Thanks for the responses
 

CAFROG

Honda Minion
VIP
You need a few things. A Complete VTEC B series head (with distributor, VTEC pressure switch, etc.), VTEC intake manifold, a kit this this (click here), VTEC headgasket, VTEC compatible ECU that can be tuned, a VTEC engine harness or add some version of this plug n play harness (click here) to add with your current engine harness. And maybe a few other things that I forgot.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
Thanks for the links. I’ll touch base with Jason Waters to see if my P28 he tuned can be modified for A VTEC. The car is an OBD2B with a jumper to run the OBD1 motor harness. Is there an advantage to run a B16 or a B18 head? Is there really a need to upgrade the rod bolts? Would the Hondata s300 be a good idea at that point. I will literally ask questions until you stop answering. Im obsessed with learning all I can about this.
 

CAFROG

Honda Minion
VIP
You plan on running this car on the track. I Frankenstein setup will want to rev much higher than an LS motor. It's just where the power is made, you want to be there. It's the hardest part about these setups on stock rods and pistons. Head studs are good safety measure. You'll be right there anyways.

If you're going to run an aftermarket intake manifold, I don't think it matters which VTEC head you get. If you're going to run a stock intake manifold, I prefer the B16 manifold. They are different bolting patterns so they are head specific except type r and b16 heads are the same stamp so there intake manifolds are interchangeable.
 

CAFROG

Honda Minion
VIP
Pick your engine management based on your tuner. My rule of thumb is try to use what the tuner enjoys using. If you find a tuner that is completely comfortable using what you have, money saved. Tons of Honda tuners are comfortable with hondata so an S300 would be a good choice.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
I’ve been doing some searching, and a stock B16 VTECH head that is complete and drop on ready is pretty difficult to find. Buying a naked head and building it is an option, but upgrading my short block (B20B) first, or at the same time, seems like a better way to go. That being said.
What might be a good non-VTECH head and intake option for upgrade? Are GSR cams such a thing for something like that? Just in staying with the OEM parts theme. Might I be better off to put cams in my head and bolt on a aftermarket intake? If so and I wanted to put cam gears on it, would they later work on a B16 cam, or do those parts not cross over. Im not looking to cheap out, just want a little more power while being conservative with my resources, and trying to be kind to my block.
From what I understand, I can grab 1000cc injectors and not use their full capability. It’s gotta be retuned anyway.
Any thoughts and advice is appreciated.

Changing gears (pun intended). They rest of my parts for the SI rear disc brake conversion are arriving today. Posting pics soon.

And BTW, as I was trolling the forum for B20B info, I ran across a novel written by “Dan The Honda Man”. Could not stop reading. Literally stayed up to 1:30am to finish all 31 pages. I am extremely disappointed that there is no resolution. After a 1 1/2 year saga, no happy ending? Anywho, Dilbeckskate is a funny fuker. Y’all be safe
 

Briansol

Admins
Staff member
Admin
VIP
you can port/polish and cam/spring/retainer upgrade a non-vtec head. it will cost about as much as a vtec head swap and be about the same power.
but, then you're topped out where as with the vtec head, you're 'stock' and ready to upgrade further.

you can't use vtec cams in a non-vtec head. most vtec/non-vtec parts are not compatible.
you certainly will not need 1000cc injectors. i would highly advise against this. You'll wash-out the cyls will too much fuel and have to up the idel rpm to keep the thing from stalling.
for basic bolt-ons, you'll have a hard time topping out 310s.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
It’s got brand new OEM injectors from the previous owner. Will these be ok for 200-250 hp. I can’t imagine I’ll ever squeeze more than tht out of her running N/A. Sound advice on the head comparison. Thank u.
 

Shook

Backroad Bandit
So I finished up the SI trailing arm with rear disc swap. Fooling with the parking brake cables was probably the most aggravating part. The exhaust heat shield has to be unbolted and dropped out of the way. But overall it didn’t take long.
I replaced the trailing arm bushings and toe arm links with PCI spherical components. Used stock calipers, rotors, and pads. Replaced the hub bearings with Timken parts. Ended up using eBay braided lines and flushed DOT 4 through the system. The stock proportion valve seems happy. Nothing is locking up. I’ve got a little more pedal travel than before though. I’ve read it’s good to switch the master cylinder to the SI. It’s 7/8” compared to the 13/16” thats on it now. Wondering if there’s really that much of a difference.
Car felt good on the shake down run. Gonna bleed the system one more time. At some point I’d like to look into an aftermarket brake bias. Might be talking out my arse, but I’d like to be able to control it.
 

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DanTheHondaMan

Well-Known Member
I’ve been doing some searching, and a stock B16 VTECH head that is complete and drop on ready is pretty difficult to find. Buying a naked head and building it is an option, but upgrading my short block (B20B) first, or at the same time, seems like a better way to go. That being said.
What might be a good non-VTECH head and intake option for upgrade? Are GSR cams such a thing for something like that? Just in staying with the OEM parts theme. Might I be better off to put cams in my head and bolt on a aftermarket intake? If so and I wanted to put cam gears on it, would they later work on a B16 cam, or do those parts not cross over. Im not looking to cheap out, just want a little more power while being conservative with my resources, and trying to be kind to my block.
From what I understand, I can grab 1000cc injectors and not use their full capability. It’s gotta be retuned anyway.
Any thoughts and advice is appreciated.

Changing gears (pun intended). They rest of my parts for the SI rear disc brake conversion are arriving today. Posting pics soon.

And BTW, as I was trolling the forum for B20B info, I ran across a novel written by “Dan The Honda Man”. Could not stop reading. Literally stayed up to 1:30am to finish all 31 pages. I am extremely disappointed that there is no resolution. After a 1 1/2 year saga, no happy ending? Anywho, Dilbeckskate is a funny fuker. Y’all be safe

Hey Shook,

I appreciate you reading my build. The problem I ran into is that I have ran out of money at different phases of the build. I finally have the money to finish her up. I should have it running and tuned in less than 30 days. I will be posting dyno results soon.

It is an extremely expensive hobby depending on what your goals are. I don't even want to tell you how much money I have spent. But I wanted certain things. Plus I have been through several motors and several setups. But I spared no expense for this build. My motor is built to handle 1200whp+.

You need to pick a power goal, pick a type of racing bracket unless it's for the street, and you need to plan your build around your power goals and your budget.

I chose a B16 Head and GSR block for my build. I like the B16 head because it has a bigger combustion chamber and it lowers compression a little bit. I plan on running high levels of boost. Somewhere between 30lbs-40lbs of boost. But its not always about psi. Your turbo dictates a lot of this. If you decide to go turbo, you can have 1 turbo and tune that allows you to make the same power at 20lbs of boost than another turbo and tune that you ran at 30lbs of boost.

Obviously if you can make the same power goals at lower boost levels that is fhe preferred method. The higher the psi the higher the potential risk.

If you are going N/A I would recommend the B20Vtec build and get some good cams and tune on e85, get big injectors, big fuel pump, coil on plug and you can easily make 250whp-300whp but you also have to have a VERY good tuner. Don't street tune, always dyno tune.

You will need to make sure suspension is good and clutch is good as well as the brakes. No matter what you do, DON'T BE CHEAP. Make sure you do lots of research. Gain A Good Understanding of the B series motors and the different motor setups that are available.

If going N/A you can build a High Compression motor. You can go as high as 13:1 compression if you have a solid and experienced tuner. And with the right cams it's possible to surpass 300whp with the right setup. But you have to make decisions and plan your build accordingly. Also make sure you build according to your budget as well.

If you have any questions feel free to pick my brain and I will do my best to answer them. If I don't know the factual answer I will tell you. But I have learned A LOT over the past couple of years.

Daniel.
 
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