Best choice for 00' Civic Si engine swap(replacement)

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The long (primary runners) curl around in a semicircle, with the butterflies and secondary runners inside the semicircle. When they open up they provide a straight line shortcut to the primaries' more circuitous path. If that makes sense.
Makes sense now.
 
why the hell would you rev to 9k on cams that only make power to about 7600 RPM????
thats 1400 RPMs of pointless engine abuse
its just stupid
Because if you up shift at 7600 then you will drop out of the motors power band and engine will bog down. Reving to a higher rpm will keep the revs higher when you shift from lets say 2nd to 3rd gear. My keep hp and tq start to fall off after 5500 on my Ls motor, if I shifted then my revs you go down to 3k way below the power band. If fact my red line is at 7k but all my power is gone by 6k (starts to drop on the dyno graph). Just my 2 cents. Oh and I never said that a GSR makes power to 9k on stock cams, only that it could handle it. But not with anything larger that Type R or stage 1 cams and even then you really should still upgrade valve springs to handle that larger cams.
 
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Yes.....this is what his tuner didn't tell him. Well.....I think 7400 is a little low but no way in hell he's making power past stock rev limit with sock cams.

And how do the runners get lengthened with IAB's closed....I think he has it backwards.
There are 2 different sets of runners in the GSR mani. Closing the IABs selects between the different runners. My crappy old SER Spec V had the same type of set up, so do some Accords and Preludes.
The B16B is a great motor on paper but on the road or track everyone I know that has driven one was expecting more from it. For the price to Hp ratio a GSR is a better choice IMO. But all B series motors are GREAT and you cant go wrong with them. Sorry K series lovers, but Im still all about the B. B16B being 180hp and GSR 170hp with more Tq that 10hp difference is easily make up and surpassed with some bolt ons and tuning.
 
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well have u ever conciderd a B16C from what ive heard its faster then an itr and it should be a direct swap as well
 
well have u ever conciderd a B16C from what ive heard its faster then an itr and it should be a direct swap as well

ahh yes the ever elusive B16C :rolleyes:...
the uber rare super engine that always seems to scratch its way to the surface any time people are having a drawn out conversation debating the pros and cons of different B series engines... inevitably someone will bring the B16C into the conversation
the biggest problem being that no one has ever actually seen one... occasionally someone knows a guy, that knows a guy, who's brother knew a guy, who's boy ran the fuckin set with a civic that had one...
but again no one ever has first hand experience with one... because they are super rare or something like that...

or maybe it has more to do with the fact that HONDA NEVER MADE A B16C.....
they dont exist in the USDM market
they dont exist in the JDM market
they dont exist in the EDM market
they dont exist in the UKDM market
they dont exist in the AUDM market
they dont exist in Narnia
THEY DONT FUCKING EXIST.... period.
 
B16c????????

Hey E I think they are in Narnia..you know its a magical place that has everything...lmao
 
Never heard of a B16C, must be that super race motor Honda never made. I saw a video with a red EF hatch trying to blow the D16 up. That was cool, they ran it with no oil or coolant and it even caught fire, got put and and still ran! Wow go Honda go lol.
 
Thanks for all the help and advice. I ended up going with the b16b, I got a good deal on a 2000 in great shape. It was about the same as as a comparable GSR, and way cheaper than the ITR. Since it's the same model year and and disp as my car it makes the swap technically legal. I reside b/t MA and NY people were telling me I could get nailed on a visual. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
A GSR swap is legal 100%, as long is it is the same OBD has the vehicle the motor is going in. Swaps that are not legal are B20 into and car as it is a light duty truck motor, older motors into a newer car like B18A in a 2001 Civic ect and Ls Vtec's are not legal. But glad to hear you got a good deal on the B16B with the motor and ECU in hand it will be plug and play swap.
 
A GSR swap is legal 100%, as long is it is the same OBD has the vehicle the motor is going in. Swaps that are not legal are B20 into and car as it is a light duty truck motor, older motors into a newer car like B18A in a 2001 Civic ect and Ls Vtec's are not legal. But glad to hear you got a good deal on the B16B with the motor and ECU in hand it will be plug and play swap.

These rules are not applicable to all states so you should not make claims other than the state you TRULY know their swap laws. For instance, CA rules are much more strict and complicated in comparison to the laws you stated. While other states are terribly lenient in comparison to the things us Californians must go through to swap "Legal"
 
Yeah man I know. Cali needs BAR approved for any swap, they are super hard core about that. So much so that when I went to Santa Monica in the beginning of Dec, I did not drive my Civic out there. I was worried about getting pulled over or it getting stolen. I lived in Long Island NY, Suffolk County to be more specific. Had no issues with my B18a swapped Del Sol. I kept all the emissions stuff, cat, EVPA ect. Passed inspection no problem, even with a "race header" and intake along with the swap. Just stick with the same OBD or newer and you will be fine. Oh and no I did not take a super long road trip from NY to Cali, I live in Arizona now.
 
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Man Im glad i live in southern ohio there are no laws on any motor swaps.. My rx7 with a 350 would of passed as long as i had all the emissions in like cats and stuff..
 
Here's some food for thought considering my original question about r/s and high reving, did some research on r/s of other honda high output engines...
engine r/s ratio redline
b16a 1.74 8200
b16b 1.84 8600 (can rev to 9000 before fuel cut)
b18c1 1.58 8100
b18c5 1.58 8600
f20c 1.82 9000
f22c 1.64 8200
k20a2 1.62 8200

f22c was derated to 8200 due to increased stroke. It's interesting that honda limits most motors in the ~1.6 r/s ratio to ~8000, CTR and F20C go to 9000, and the CTR has the best r/s of all of them. The ITR seems a bit of an anomaly out of the bunch having the lowest r/s but reving to the moon like the civic and s2000.
 
Can you explain how you found this information? I understand the theory that shorter stroke can slide up and down faster with less stress on the parts but how did you find these particular numbers? Something to do with tension on the rod? What about an LS rod/Stroke ratio? (longer than GSR....I think) Guys shot peen those rods and rev them to 9K+rpms so I am just confused on the constraints you are expressing.
 
My method wasn't too academically rigorous. I used google to find info on the engines and either got r/s directly or calculated it. I think the LS is like 1.54. With longer stroke the piston has to cover a larger linear distance in the same amount of time at a given rpm, so it has greater peak speed, and KE is the square of velocity so that's a lot more stress. The r/s ratio effects the side loading, and also effects the shape of the velocity curve, fattening it, thus lowering the peak velocity, lowering the stress on the engine at high rpm. With stronger rods and bolts you can handle the stress. Just thought it was ineresting the general trend in r/s and redline from factory high perf. honda engines. This why if done wrong those LS/VTEC builds throw rods.
 
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