Engine Hesitation and Vtech Not Kicking In

[ramikassab]

Well guys, I am having two major problems right now. I have done tons of reading on forums and think I might have some idea what could be wrong but I need a little more help.

First off, here is what has been done to my car. I have an AUTOMATIC 93 Prelude. There was an SI motor in there (H23a). I just had a swap done to a JDM H22a but I still have the AUTOMATIC tranny in there. I have a P13 ECU in the car, which is the one for an H22a.

Now, my first problem is that Vtech isn't kicking in. The car revs to 6200 RPM and that's it. The P13 I have is an AT one but I didn't know they made P13s for autmatic trannys. Either way, 6200 RPM is what the autmatic ecu allows for an SI while the manual ecu revs up to 6800 I believe. With Vtech I should rev higher however.

The JDM H22a engine I purchased didn't come with a distributor so I used to distributor off of my H23 and just ran the wire for the Coil. I believe the JDM h22a normally has a coil-less distributor. Could using the distributor off of my H23a cause any issues? Also, no where do I have a knock sensor. I don't know if this is normal for the autmatic transmission or not? The wires for Vtech have been run to spec. I read that if the oil pressure is off or if the engine is throwing any codes then Vtech doesn't kick in but my CEL doesn't ever turn on so the ECU isn't throwing any codes.

Basically, if my engine is running in limp mode. How can I daignose the problem. Where would you start. What could be wrong in my setup. Does Vtech work even though I have an autmatic transmission?

Second, I had a hesitation problem and I read that it is common among the H22a motors. No one had really figured out what was causing it cause it is different for a lot of people. Basically what was happening is that when the engine was warm, I would be driving and it would randomly feel as if something grabbed ahold of my rear bumper and pulled me back for a second. Sometimes the RPMs would stick at 3100 for a bit until I gave the car a lot more gas. I read on one forum that one guy adjusted his timing by about 5 degrees and it helped him. I did that along with adjusting my TPS sensor a bit and the car runs better now however, when I reved it to max a couple times while driving the CEL came on and went off when I turned the car off and back on. Is it going to affect my car really badly to have the timing set slightly more aggressively? What is the stock timing setting for an H22a? I know for the H23 it was 15+-2.

Also, my car still revs up to 6200 only and wont go hight and I don't think Vtech is kicking in. Or it might kick in but only go for like 1000 RPM (from whatever it is activated at to 6200). Any ideas. I have been tackling these problems for a while and really need some help right now. Any input is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[ramikassab]

Just noticed I spelled VTECH wrong the whole time. Sorry big post. I realize it's spelled Vtec

 

[hcivic.com]

try your stock ecu

 

[ramikassab]

Originally posted by hcivic.com@Dec 20 2004, 01:18 AM
try your stock ecu

[post=434722]Quoted post[/post]​

As in use my P14? How would that get Vtec working?

 

[TeamUrbanChaos]

well first off.....you might wanna check out that ecu beacuse everything your describing ( low rev limiter, no VTEC) is all ECU based...also unless you have a chipped P13 , any stock p13 ECU should always look for the knock sensor. the knock sensor isnt tranny optional, its on the motor regardless of auto or manual and if you ecu isnt throwin a knock code and you clain to have a stock, non-chipped p13 then you have a problem. it almost sounds like you have a non vtec ecu from possibly another car because you saying that you ECU isnt throwing any codes whatsoever even though it starts and runs, which makes no sense cuz if it were hooked up improperely, i assume it wouldnt start. and as far as using you old dizzy, i dont kno if the H23 is internal or external coil but i do kno that the H22 is internal coil but i cant see that causing a problem with your no vtec cuz once again, if hooked up improperly then your car wouldnt run. i just did an H22 swap in my accord and i used a JUN chipped p13 and it didnt look for the knock but it looked for everything else...but from what you described..i would almost bet that your problems are because of that ECU...but im not a supertech....they dont log on until about 7:30 at night ...but try hooking up your stock ECU and see what happens...at least you know that you stock ECU is good and if theres any probems, that it will throw a code. you wont hit VTEC or anything but youll have an some idea whether that p13 ECU is working or not

 

[ramikassab]

Originally posted by TeamUrbanChaos@Dec 20 2004, 11:50 AM
well first off.....you might wanna check out that ecu beacuse everything your describing ( low rev limiter, no VTEC) is all ECU based...also unless you have a chipped P13 , any stock p13 ECU should always look for the knock sensor. the knock sensor isnt tranny optional, its on the motor regardless of auto or manual and if you ecu isnt throwin a knock code and you clain to have a stock, non-chipped p13 then you have a problem. it almost sounds like you have a non vtec ecu from possibly another car because you saying that you ECU isnt throwing any codes whatsoever even though it starts and runs, which makes no sense cuz if it were hooked up improperely, i assume it wouldnt start. and as far as using you old dizzy, i dont kno if the H23 is internal or external coil but i do kno that the H22 is internal coil but i cant see that causing a problem with your no vtec cuz once again, if hooked up improperly then your car wouldnt run. i just did an H22 swap in my accord and i used a JUN chipped p13 and it didnt look for the knock but it looked for everything else...but from what you described..i would almost bet that your problems are because of that ECU...but im not a supertech....they dont log on until about 7:30 at night ...but try hooking up your stock ECU and see what happens...at least you know that you stock ECU is good and if theres any probems, that it will throw a code. you wont hit VTEC or anything but youll have an some idea whether that p13 ECU is working or not

[post=434873]Quoted post[/post]​

Thanks for the reply. I am curious why the damn ECU isn't throwing a code without the knock sensor. How reliable are the other ECUs that don't look for the knock sensor. I'm thinking if I purchase one of those and not purchase the knock sensor it might be a better performance and value trade off.

How much do they run for and are there any websites I can check out? Thanks for your help!

 

[tab]

Dude, your H23 already had a knock sensor, so you probably already hooked it up without knowing what it was.

Auto tranny doesn't matter for anything, except that you want the right TCU, and an Auto ECU.

Did you wire VTEC?

You won't get a code until the car is warm.

 

[ramikassab]

Originally posted by tab@Dec 21 2004, 01:07 PM
Dude, your H23 already had a knock sensor, so you probably already hooked it up without knowing what it was.

Auto tranny doesn't matter for anything, except that you want the right TCU, and an Auto ECU.

Did you wire VTEC?

You won't get a code until the car is warm.

[post=435493]Quoted post[/post]​

Ok so I do have a knock sensor it turns out but it wasn't wired by my mechanic for some reason. Basically my car is running in limp mode right now because there is no knock sensor connected to the ECU. I figured the ECU would throw a code in such a case but it isn't. The ONLY time I have ever gotten the CEL was when I floored it multiple times on the freeway when the car was running for a while. When the car was turned off and back on the CEL went off.

I will be setting my timing back to stock (15+-2), adjusting TPS sensor to the correct stock setting using a multimeter, and connecting the knock sensor to the ECU. Doing these three things should fix my problems.... hopefully. I will let you guys know how everything works out once I do this.

I do have one other question however. My autmatic shifter will allow me to shift even when there is no key in the ignition or shift lock release even. This started after the swap. Any ideas why? Thanks guys!

 

[TeamUrbanChaos]

yea man your ECU should have absoluately thrown a code with no knock sensor wired...i really think you got a non vtec ecu or possibly a modified p13 cuz every stock VTEC ecu looks for a knock sensor unless its been modified. especially a stock p13!! ...deffiantely check that out

 

[ramikassab]

Originally posted by TeamUrbanChaos@Dec 21 2004, 11:21 PM
yea man your ECU should have absoluately thrown a code with no knock sensor wired...i really think you got a non vtec ecu or possibly a modified p13 cuz every stock VTEC ecu looks for a knock sensor unless its been modified. especially a stock p13!! ...deffiantely check that out

[post=435716]Quoted post[/post]​

I'm doing that first thing tomorrow. Thanks for your reply. I will let you guys know how everything works out. I appreciate it!

 

[BlackJDMdeath]

i'm assuming you read the code on the side of the ecu, right?

 

[tab]

Did you swap shifters?(knob and button)

There are a couple of things that will keep the shifter from moving.
1. TCU
2. Key not in ignition
3. Brake not depressed
4. Interlock problem

All of these are to take the shifter out of park. There is a solenoid on the shifter down below. Aftermarket knobs seem to let the trannies go in and out of gear however you like.(no locks)

Sounds like something in there was messed with.

 

[ramikassab]

Originally posted by BlackJDMdeath@Dec 22 2004, 07:18 PM
i'm assuming you read the code on the side of the ecu, right?

[post=436151]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah I read the code and it said P13AT on it somewhere. I will double check again tomorrow when I go into the shop. I sure hope the ECU hasn't been tampered with.

 

[ramikassab]

What exactly is an interlock problem? My problem isn't that the autmatic shifter isn't moving... it's that it is even when there is no key in the ignition or shift lock release. The car could be completely turned off and a key no where in sight and I can sit down and shift the car into any gear. Kinda weird!

Originally posted by tab@Dec 22 2004, 07:37 PM
Did you swap shifters?(knob and button)

There are a couple of things that will keep the shifter from moving.
1. TCU
2. Key not in ignition
3. Brake not depressed
4. Interlock problem

All of these are to take the shifter out of park. There is a solenoid on the shifter down below. Aftermarket knobs seem to let the trannies go in and out of gear however you like.(no locks)

Sounds like something in there was messed with.

[post=436160]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[tab]

There is a solenoid on the shifter assembly down below.

If your shifter is stock, troubleshoot the interlock system and that solenoid. Honda calls it an Interlock, I don't know why.

Aftermarket knobs seem to let the trannies go in and out of gear however you like.(no locks)

 

[sleepn_accord]

1 - You can shift your tranny at about 7500 (on the stock tach) you just have to manually upshift - the h23 tcu will not prevent you from going that high. I beat my h22 auto tranny daily and after a year it's doing fine. (Although I do have a slight 'buck' on occassion around 60mph..but my old f22 did that too...one day I'll figure it out).
Ammendum: You're lucky that you can shift without using the key or depressing the brake. All h22 auto owners that I know have to put their can into neutral before starting it as the 'interlock solenoid' no longer seems to function. I did find a solution to this and posted it somewhere. But I really wouldn't worry about it. One solution would be to hardwire your solenoid - DO NOT ASK ME HOW. FIND A WIRING SCHEMATIC AND DO IT YOURSELF. <-- sorry, this is not a critical wiring problem and I don't have time to research it for you.

2 - The reason you're getting a rev limiter and no vtec is probably because you don't have the VTM plugged in. In all you should have had to add three wires. Double check that they are securely plugged in (and in the right slot position). When I was installing my fields controller I had this same problem and it was due to the VTM not being plugged in. It WILL NOT throw a code, but will cause all of the symptoms you're currently describing with the exception of the hesitation.

3 - The hestitation could be due to many things. I would recommend that you clean out your intake manifold and get NGK spark plugs. But do this after you've resolved the #2 issue. Most likely if this problem is not solved by fixing your limp mode ecu issue then your egr ports are blocked up. Lastly H22's are cry-babies about their ignition timing. Anything less than 15degrees will make the engine run like shit. I've found tht 18 is perfect for me. But remember that you have to jump your service connector when you adjust your ignition timing.

Hope this helps.