Karate video of myself, and my instructor.

[jeffie7]

I will that while kicking is a very bad thing to do "mid/high" if you're a bad ass kicker you can get away with it. speed is everything as with how well you can flex =)
My instructor was a big sparer back in the day and he pushes the point that if you ever fight a big kicker play the defense and block block block after a few kicks to your elbows/blocks to the shin, they tend to slow down =)

When I took Kempo everyone loved to throw elbows to mid roundhouses =( it didnt feel good.

 

[jeffie7]

How often do you get in fights on the street? It sounds like you have a lot of mutual fighting going on where both of you agree you're going to fight and start out with fist up. =) I tend to walk away from that. I train for the day when someone comes up to me and attacks me out of no where and I have no other options then to fight back.

As far as the elbow all you do is sit your elbow on your ribs, when the attacker throws a round house to your ribs it will almost always land right on your elbow.

And about the overly aggressive attacker, other then sparing I've never had to worry about the issue since I've never had to fight anyone on the streets I've always either told the guy to piss off or just say whatever and walk away. I'm a stubborn person and will stand my ground if I believe the other person is doing wrong. A few months ago in a bar 2 bar stools opened up after about 5 mins a body builder like guy "really big" came over and told me hey that was my seat I looked at him and said "sorry it was open" then I started talking to my friend about so and so and sure enough that big dude was like right there looking at us, I didnt give a fuck but sure enough my friend gets up and offers him his seat. I told my friend WTF did you do that for? sigh.... Total DICK.
however I wasnt going to budge, for spite I would have sat there for an hour.

I'm 5'10 and about 158lbs so a lot of people feel they can talk shit and give me crap. I've found with most people, when they me give shit all you do is stand up to them and say Im sorry what was that? sure enough they mumble some crap and walk away.

The thing I like about Koryu Uchinadi is the fact that its nothing but the old tradition karate before it was watered down by the school systems.

http://www.netcolony.com/kustorage/Kinjo_H...cher_Mentor.htm

Check out this page and all the pictures I just happened to run across it. Some of the pictures are really neat. theres a 2nd page on the bottom with more pictures of patrick when he was younger. really neat stuff!

I guess he did alright lol

 

[h22bubbleback]

:ghey: x infinite

 

[jeffie7]

WTF is up with the homophobs? You get into a contact FIGHTING sport and becuase you touch another guy CHOKING HIM in a none sexual way you guys act like middleschoolers and run with it. You can call me gay all you want I could care less but grow the fuck up when it comes to other things like Martial Arts.

anywho,

Did you check any of the other pictures out on that site? most are new to me.

TKD is just like Boxing IMO both are GREAT SPORTS but nothing more.

 

[Guy]

Originally posted by Blanco@Apr 16 2005, 06:48 PM

My Sa Bom Nim and dojang...you can see a "family tree" on the sparring page.
http://shopsutter.com/Yuba_Sutter_Tang_Soo_Do/

[post=487879]Quoted post[/post]​

I used to train there back when he was located on Butte house road in YC. One of these days I'll have to sign up for classes for a bit. Kicks aren't anything that I really focus on in Judo, and unfortunately my stint with Uechi-ryu Karate may be ending this semester, perhaps that would help to balance me out a bit.

On a side note, apperantly the Twin Cities Judo club may be picking up a Danzan-Ryu Jujitsu instructor. Im looking foreward to being able to do more cross training.

 

[StealthMode]

I come from a background of 5 years in Taekwon-Do. I was just short of earning my 2nd Dan Black Belt. But in the USTF (United States TaeKwon-Do Federation) and ITF (International Taekwon-Do Federation), we didn't recieve the watered down version at all. We were taught that if you are in a situation where you MUST fight, YOU end it. I would never do a series of fancy kicks just to show off. It takes either one to the knee or to the ribs and that's it. No bullshit. For the past few years, I've been avidly studying Baguazhang, Chin Na, and some aspects of Jeet Kune Do (which is basically a compilation of MANY styles of fighting). I've found that it's most irimidating to fight an over offensive attacker with an even better offense. Granted that the basic idea behind Martial Arts is self defense, you would be a fool to stay on the defensive. When someone is relentlessly attacking me, (most of my experience is in sparring, tournaments and such, and street fighting) the best thing is to get the attacker off balance or off rythm(sp?). A good strong kick to the kneecaps of anyone will at least throw them off. That leaves them open for not one hit, but combination. Most fights are over in a matter of seconds, so your defense should be quick and effective, then your switch to the offensive should be fast and efficient. 90% of people in a fight BOX, and that's it. I hit you, you hit me back. We both get pissed, lose teeth, and have crooked noses afterwards. Most of the time, a fight will end up on the ground. That's where your armbars and choke holds come into play.

Just try to end it as quick as possible.

 

[StealthMode]

It takes about 3 years to get to 1 Dan. Then to get to 2 Dan, it takes about a year or so more. I was extrememly busy during that time, hence the reason that I quit. Our sparring during class was mainly light sparring, but in the tournaments, it was full contact. I fought in the Junior division once, because I was 14. I quit shortly after that, and for the last 4 years I've been studying on my own.

What we learned was that General Choi Hong Hi was the first in Korea to actually DOCUMENT the arts common to the area. He wasn't the one to make them up, of course, but rather first to compile them together into what is now called Taekwon-Do, and teach it to students. Along with all our patterns or katas (to use the karate name) we were taught the history of what this particular form was actually about, and what inspired it. (I couldn't tell you all that crap now though.) I've sat in a few of Taekwon-Do classes my friends were taking, but none of them taught any of this. If you are interested in reading up a little, I found their website. It's www.ustf-itf.com I personally have not seen this site yet, so I'm going to do some looking around too. I was a part of SereffTKD. Grand Master Charles E. Sereff was about the 3rd 9th Dan I believe. There's not many. His gym is in Denver.

Obviously, if you are gonna get jumped or something, someone will come in with a barrage of attacks. Those 3 to 4 are best avoided in my opinion. Keep your distance for the first few seconds, and you can learn a LOT about your enemy. Whether or not he has any experience, whether or not he is intoxicated, how quick and strong he is, etc. There's times when a guy has tried to tackle me like a damn football player, and I just tossed them aside. One swift kick, and he's done. Some people say that it's fucked up to kick someone while he's down, but shit, if you're going to try to beat my ass I'm not going to hold back. In my opinion, taking away someone's root (or balance) is KEY. I'm actually more prone to use knees and elbows. If your going to get close, might as well do the most possible damage, right. Your knee and elbow are about the strongest and most durable weapons you have. Why not use them accordingly?

Now, I've been really interested in Internal Martial Arts rather than External. Your external arts are Karate, Taekwon-Do, kickboxing, etc. Those arts that teach simply attacks, defenses, etc. Internal arts are the ones that teach about your body's flow of Qi, and those arts not only used for fighting, but healing as well. Some of these are Taiji Chuan, Baguazhang, Dim Mak, etc. I've found these to be very intriguing.

 

[StealthMode]

Shit, I just found out that Grand Master Sereff studied Tang Soo Do first, and got his 2 Dan. That's when he met General Cho, and chose to switch.

Intereting

 

[totalburnout]

Looks like wrestling added with blows to me.

Choke holds obviously aren't legal in wrestling, but you can naturally position yourself to get into one. When I fight, I pretty much rely on the wrestling takedowns that I practiced since I was around 5 and then I move into a choke hold. I hear its fairly similar to brazillian jinjitsu except that incorporates far more throws.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by jeffie7@Apr 16 2005, 05:40 PM

TKD is just like Boxing IMO both are GREAT SPORTS but nothing more.

[post=487872]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't think you can just chalk those two methods of fighting up to sport. Sure IT IS a sport, but those methods of fighting can also be very functional.

TKD moreso than boxing because you can both throw kicks and punches, but both boxing and TKD obviously lack hand to hand on the ground.

My line of thinking is, if you ever got into a fight with a boxer or a tkd player than you'd be dead jeffie because you're never going to get in close enough to them...and if you do, you're going to be knocked unconscious because they're going to wallop the shit out of you when you put your head down and go in.

Now for the average guy, its not so hard to get into a grapple with him and get inside, but for an experienced boxer or TKD specialist...

 

[jeffie7]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Apr 19 2005, 09:16 AM-->

jeffie7

@Apr 16 2005, 05:40 PM

TKD is just like Boxing IMO both are GREAT SPORTS but nothing more.

[post=487872]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't think you can just chalk those two methods of fighting up to sport. Sure IT IS a sport, but those methods of fighting can also be very functional.

TKD moreso than boxing because you can both throw kicks and punches, but both boxing and TKD obviously lack hand to hand on the ground.

My line of thinking is, if you ever got into a fight with a boxer or a tkd player than you'd be dead jeffie because you're never going to get in close enough to them...and if you do, you're going to be knocked unconscious because they're going to wallop the shit out of you when you put your head down and go in.

Now for the average guy, its not so hard to get into a grapple with him and get inside, but for an experienced boxer or TKD specialist...

[post=488659]Quoted post[/post]​

I study everything TKO guys study so rank for rank.... um no.

Also when you get into a fight in real life YOU DO NOT HOLD YOUR FIST UP AND SAY COME ON LETS GO!!!!! my god people always think thats what happens. Chances are you will be at a bar drinking you beer and some guy will sucker punch you or grab you and go from ther. Last time I checked in TKO if a guy as much as held onto a kick or grabed a guy he would get a penalty. Bottem line boxing/TKO has set rules and you train by those rules if you train with grabs/ground work you ARE NOT DOING TKO.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by jeffie7+Apr 19 2005, 06:13 PM-->

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Apr 19 2005, 09:16 AM
jeffie7

@Apr 16 2005, 05:40 PM

TKD is just like Boxing IMO both are GREAT SPORTS but nothing more.

[post=487872]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't think you can just chalk those two methods of fighting up to sport. Sure IT IS a sport, but those methods of fighting can also be very functional.

TKD moreso than boxing because you can both throw kicks and punches, but both boxing and TKD obviously lack hand to hand on the ground.

My line of thinking is, if you ever got into a fight with a boxer or a tkd player than you'd be dead jeffie because you're never going to get in close enough to them...and if you do, you're going to be knocked unconscious because they're going to wallop the shit out of you when you put your head down and go in.

Now for the average guy, its not so hard to get into a grapple with him and get inside, but for an experienced boxer or TKD specialist...

[post=488659]Quoted post[/post]​

I study everything TKO guys study so rank for rank.... um no.

Also when you get into a fight in real life YOU DO NOT HOLD YOUR FIST UP AND SAY COME ON LETS GO!!!!! my god people always think thats what happens. Chances are you will be at a bar drinking you beer and some guy will sucker punch you or grab you and go from ther. Last time I checked in TKO if a guy as much as held onto a kick or grabed a guy he would get a penalty. Bottem line boxing/TKO has set rules and you train by those rules if you train with grabs/ground work you ARE NOT DOING TKO.

[post=488871]Quoted post[/post]​

Lol you're blinded by the bullshit that you've gotten sucked into.

Its instinctive to defend yourself. An experienced fighter wouldn't let you in, if you were to stand up and fight, and if you did get in it would be at the cost of your head or another body part.

If you get sucker punched at the bar, then you can just as easily pick up a bar stool or anything around you and rail the idiot. Evenso, if you didn't and did get into a fight even if it wasn't a boxing match but a 'street brawl' an experieinced boxer or tko specialist has the powerful base to build on and if he needs to throw a choke hold then he can instinctively throw one. Any idiot can put another guy in a choke hold, its a comfortable maneuver thats very easy.

My point was karate kid loses to powerful puncher everytime street brawl or not.

I fight primarly the way you do and I know if I go up against a heavy puncher, although I can block punches if I take one then I'm fucked. Thats all I'm saying. You can practice the karate kid shit all you want, but a big guy that isn't a fool is still going to have the upperhand and wallop your ass...its a fact of life.

 

[jeffie7]

My point was karate kid loses to powerful puncher everytime street brawl or not

. You are 100% right if the karate kid has no Technique. a 150lb person with great technique can punch harder and more powerful then a 225LB guy with no technique. Just look at Bruce Lee. It's all in the hips.

So does the TKO guy always lose to the powerful puncher? or is it just people who train Karate?


So training for sparing, grappling, blocks, chokes, take downs, isnt a good idea? should I drop everything and go to TKO?

If a guy comes up to me and punchs me I'm going to check/block his punch and chances are do a ridge hand into this throat or a palm strike to his nose. or I could check his punch put him in an armbar and take him down to the ground then break his arm. We train for blocking anything that might come at you. We even cover things like sticks/bows/nunchucks/knifes.

Bottom line if you do TRUE TKO it is nothing more then a sport. However I don't know of any TKO schools around here that hasnt added another style to their class to make up for the lack of self defense. And saying Big guy that isnt a fool.... Sigh.... As stated in another thread I've had that shit come up with an all state wrestling champ who is 205lbs with about a 10% body fat body builder Hes bad ass but as soon as you grab him in the nuts or bash your chin into his eye.....

If I'm fighting a much bigger guy I could care less if I fight dirty. Do keep in mind A LOT of those chokes work great on bigger guys. they tend to have a low pain tolerance when it comes to digging your finger into nerves as with blood chokes.
Once again fighting one on one with your first up with both guys ready to enter the fight is nothing more then something you see on movies.

List 3 ways of getting out of a over the arms bear hug from behind. (can happen to you rather easily in a bar)

What about a full Nelson? (bar bouncers use this move a lot)

If someone put you in either one of those moves how long would it take you to think about how to get out of it? Almost every single choke/armbar/take down we have we also have a counter for it.

 

[StealthMode]

Yeah, exactly. The Hwarang warriors were brutal in battle. I've actually had the opportunity to do a little work with this guy I met. He was an older man, about 60 ish. We got into a conversation about some marital arts. I mentioned to him that I have taken an interest in the internal martial arts and he that I have taken a special interest in Dim Mak. I will never forget the look on his face. I pointed to about 35 deadly pressure points, in the exact locations of Qi flow on his body. (mainly on his head, neck, and arms) He told me that with the information I know, it would be very dangerous for me to practice any of them. The reason being that you shouldn't study these points, without both the lethal and the healing aspects. I mainly know the lethal ones. For about a half hour he taught me how to (very basically) cultivate the Qi flowing through myself, and how to control it. It was only once though, and that's why I'm trying to find a good instructor to help me.

 

[totalburnout]

Jeffie, my point was if you don't have size and you're fighting a person that has size and any amount of fighting experience you're fucked.

Now I'm not a very big guy at all, and I can tool the average guy that doesn't have the training that I have. The second I encounter someone thats so large that they're hard to manage or thats big and has experience, I'm done. Its like the issue of displacement, theres no replacement.


As for the fighting scenarios, those are actually quite easy holds to get out of.

Its a matter of what you're willing to do to get out.


As for starting a bar fight or the average fight, like Blanco said you're most likely going to start facing each other with atleast one guys hands up or throwing a punch. How else are you going to start a fight other than a sucker punch? You're either going to push, slap, punch or otherwise touch the person and at that point either they or you can be standing with hands up.

I would never start a fight with my guard down. I'm really good at blocking punches and countering, since I never really started fights.

 

[jeffie7]

Size still means nothing. I don't care what you think I've seen first hand some bad ass mofos one that comes to mind is one of the KU members whos black belt is so used it looks like a shoelace hanging off his body. He is ONE QUICK MOFO!!!!! Hes maybe a tad bit bigger then Bruce Lee but can punch/kick/graple at speeds that are unreal! I really could care less how big the guy is. Just as Blanco says, just kick the fucker in the knee, or jam your fingers into his eyes and if your fingers happen to slip inside the eye sockets grab and pull.

When I talk about fights never starting with fist up in the air. I say that because if someone has their first up waiting for you to do the same theres nothing saying you can't walk/run away. If someone puts his fist up chances are Im going to just walk away even if I know I could kick the guys ass. I train for when someone grabs me or when they throw a random punch and I happen to catch it out of the corner of my eye.

 

[jeffie7]

Anyone who's seen pictures of any of the old masters should know size means nothing. all of them are either skin and bone light weights or husky short chubby guys. Today theres a much bigger mix of people size wise. but the true masters back in the day were tiny and could kick major ass no matter what size the other guy was.


I just wish everyone would get it in their heads that a true street fight is NEVER mutual, Thats why I stated that a fight never starts with both fighters in a ready stance. unless of course both guys are looking to get into it. Then that is NOT self defense.

I love how there's people out there who have studied martial arts for years and watches a Kata/Waza or something like what I just did and laughs saying wtf was that! the you have TRUE martial artest that can look at it and pick out 20 different applications from the one form. Anyone can learn a basic and even hard kata/waza however understanding them is a whole other level.

Blanco, it sucks you live out in CA I'd love to share a few wazas/katas.

 

[Smonkeyboy]

haha, i totally agree with the TKD being a good sport. cause just taekwendo, if you get in a fight and it goes to the ground (which most fights do) your proper fucked.

thats why im really glad that my master was also 4th dan Aikido and 3rd dan Judo. so we not only got the kicking and punching of TKD but also the sweeps, and throws of Judo, and the joint locks of Aikido. it was primarily a TKD class though.

and in a REAL TKD school should take minimum 3yrs to First Dan, then at least 4 more years for 2nd, and so on. my school we had 2 second dans, and one was takin classes for 11yrs before he got his, and the other 9years. My instructor has been taking for 30+ years and just got his 5th dan in 2003.

 

[jeffie7]

One thing I've fouind about TKO is that most of the schools are nothing more then money money money. Bottom line if you show up and pay money you get a belt. My coworker is a total bad ass black belt in TKO "so poeple say" However, the only thing she knows how to do is some kicks and punches/sparing other thne that... NOTHING she doesnt even know why you should breath out and or yell when hitting/bracing for impact. Isnt that a movie thing? .........

I'm not saying all schools are like that but the ones arund here get a nice store front in a shopping mall and hang big banners about becoming a black belt in only X many months.

it's sad.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by jeffie7@Apr 20 2005, 05:39 PM
Size still means nothing.

[post=489309]Quoted post[/post]​

Its everything in this world.

If size meant nothing, there would never be any weight classes. The idea of a 'sport' is to keep everything even, UFC and other fighting leagues do this by the only way possible and thats creating weight classes.


I'm a small guy, I can beat the hell out of most bigger than me...granted they dont have as much experience or the same training as myself.

My point was and still is, that if you were to go against someone that was experienced in fighting thats bigger than you...you're going to get your ass handed to you. (I don't think you can refute that on a generalized basis)