i'm not quite sure i follow this....
What happened to freedom of the press?
oh yeah, another one of our rights that have been written off.
Now theyre using the call records to track down the whistleblowers
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i'm not quite sure i follow this....
What happened to freedom of the press?
oh yeah, another one of our rights that have been written off.
Dustin_m
Member
the press has the freedom to tell it all, but people who have certain types of govt. clearances are not allowed to disclose the info. thats the ones that should go down for treason.
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
exactly, thank you Senate, the more I argue politics on here the more I realize I'm not arguing against people who have different views, I'm arguing against people who don't know what they're fucking talking about.
And using a quote made 250 years ago about another, wholly different, type of situation is just crazy. If the first American government were around today George Washington himself would have sacked Baghdad, and that's if John Adam's didn't talk him into nuking the whole goddammed section of the world first. People caught detialing classified info the press who be hanged on the white house lawn...
And using a quote made 250 years ago about another, wholly different, type of situation is just crazy. If the first American government were around today George Washington himself would have sacked Baghdad, and that's if John Adam's didn't talk him into nuking the whole goddammed section of the world first. People caught detialing classified info the press who be hanged on the white house lawn...
VTECin5th
Administrator
Exactly what i was talking about up there^
Everyone who thinks different or has another opinion not matching yours, is instantly not worthy of discussing anything.
Oooh yea girl, run that game.
Dustin_m
Member
i don't know i kind of imagined that for a second and started laughing. as much as i believe there are fucked up things our government does behind our back we should know about, it doesn't matter. at a certain point, yes, giving up info might be crucial for the general public to know, but thats hardly ever the case.
also, these people that leak shit don't think- they are releasing info to the general public. there are so many fucked up individuals who are going to know how to comprehend it, or know the full story. then they are going to go off ranting and raving about something they don't know shit about from first hand experience, just what they were told. then it just becomes like that cliche phone thing, where one person says something, and by the time the 4th or 5th person hears it, it becomes a totally different story.
honestly, i can't really say if i'm democrat, republican, or whatever. no i have never voted, ever. thats just the choice i made for right now. i know how i feel on certain topics, and yes i keep up with current events and all, but i haven't put in the time around elections and such, to make an educated decision as far as voting. yea mine may be just one vote or whatever, but i'd rather know i made a vote that i was sure about, not just some random person. thats why you will almost never see me in the middle of these political arguments here.
i think its all good you all discuss it, or argue like you all usually do, shit thats what we have the right to do. i just choose to read and learn other peoples views and such.
rambling on again, haha...
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
Alright I've been nice for the last month or so, really tried to be a logical debater ya know? You guys are to much..
*clears throat*
Being an uneducated liberal FUCK makes debating you unworth it
The government using call logs to catch government employees devulging classified information IS NOT against the 1at amendment
The President using his executive powers as YOUR FUCKING PRESIDENT does not constitute a crime, even if you didn't vote for him, even if you want it to be illegal.
(from another thread) Bush's tax cuts are what spurred the economy back to life after 911, and no his cuts haven't been aimed toward "rich people"
There is no crime with what they're doing, it is being done to keep this country safe. If you actually think that Bush gives a damn about who you call (unless your a government employee giving away classified info, a terrorist, or something just as bad) then your crazy
[/rant]
VTECin5th
Administrator
Cool! Awesome!!
Being the uneducated liberal FUCK that I am (to you) I guess I forgot to bow down to Mr. Logical Always_have_to_be_right_with_my_opinion_and_yours_doesn't_Count Debater.
My apologies Sir, I hate to be "unworth" your debates, without them I might turn into a under-sexed 30 year old man who writes a biased column and shoves my head so far up Bush's ass that I'll start to insult people who don't see things my way to feel better about myself.
Boy, that life would suck eh?
When did _I_ say it was? IF you directed this towards my uneducated liberal FUCK'ness.
I always said I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE CALL LOGGING/TRACING/LISTENING.
Well thank you Sir, I'm glad you set my opinion for me once again.
When do "executive powers" cross the line? <- That's OPINION ... so please, tell me how I feel about it.
PS: He's YOUR president, I voted for Steve->
I never said I'm NOT SAFE... I feel just as safe as I did everyday of my life, I don't live in fear.
Fear is what fuels the "yea it's ok for him to do xxxxx, he's making us a SAFER country"... even the idea of FEAR instantly justifies ANYTHING.
No, _I_ never did care what they do with the phone lines, It's NOTHING NEW>
They've been doing the same shit for years, i said before "just because it hit the news, doesn't make it NEW".
- SilverChild's personal uneducated liberal FUCK puppet.
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
no we should post up links to news websites for VTEC to read
seriously how can you debate that you don't lack knowledge and then ask who Cindy Sheehan is?
It's not so much that you post incorrect things it's that you bring no real info to the debate but you still want everyone to hear your opinion, then you ask a bunch of questions
learn, decide, debate, re-decide, debate again, then start forming opinions
and for your information I am not a blind follower of Bush, I oppose his guest worker program, his failure to listen to his generals in Iraq, and countless other things.
The difference is I still approve of him as a whole because he has had the hardest set of circumstances to govern under since pearl harbor was attacked, had to deal with massive illegal immigration reform, social security reform, health care reform, energy reform, basically all the shit the baby boomers have managed to fuck up. Meanwhile he's opposed on all fronts by Dems who don't want to she anything he does succeed because they're afraid if he's good for America they might get voted out in favor of a GOP the next time they're up for re election.
What does he do through all of this, sticks by his guns, does what he thinks is right, and uses his executive powers to appoint good solid justices and protect us from terrorists.
He has failed to do allot of things in my eyes, some because he took a wrong path in my opinion, some because the left refuses to work with him for reasons stated above. He is still a good (if not great) president and will be remembered as such by our grand kids.
perhaps it is not I who fails to see the other side of the coin...
I'm going to work
seriously how can you debate that you don't lack knowledge and then ask who Cindy Sheehan is?
It's not so much that you post incorrect things it's that you bring no real info to the debate but you still want everyone to hear your opinion, then you ask a bunch of questions
learn, decide, debate, re-decide, debate again, then start forming opinions
and for your information I am not a blind follower of Bush, I oppose his guest worker program, his failure to listen to his generals in Iraq, and countless other things.
The difference is I still approve of him as a whole because he has had the hardest set of circumstances to govern under since pearl harbor was attacked, had to deal with massive illegal immigration reform, social security reform, health care reform, energy reform, basically all the shit the baby boomers have managed to fuck up. Meanwhile he's opposed on all fronts by Dems who don't want to she anything he does succeed because they're afraid if he's good for America they might get voted out in favor of a GOP the next time they're up for re election.
What does he do through all of this, sticks by his guns, does what he thinks is right, and uses his executive powers to appoint good solid justices and protect us from terrorists.
He has failed to do allot of things in my eyes, some because he took a wrong path in my opinion, some because the left refuses to work with him for reasons stated above. He is still a good (if not great) president and will be remembered as such by our grand kids.
perhaps it is not I who fails to see the other side of the coin...
I'm going to work
But then we're back to my last post. When the secret threatens the constitution and all the freedoms we hold dear, upholding the constitution trumps the oath to secrecy.
As an extreme example, if you had uber top level secret clearance and found out that there was a plot to kill off all the residents of an entire town to change the voting percentage of a state, wouldn't you break that secret? Aren't the lives and freedoms of your people more important than keeping a government secret? That's exactly what these whistleblowers are doing. They see a threat to our way of life and are making a moral choice between the oath they took to their constitution and the oath they took to their current government.
I think we all are, that's why we discuss as ferverently as we do; we all want the best for our country.
I learned A LONG TIME ago that arguing with Silverchild is identical to arguing with my 7 year old nephew--sure, it makes you feel smart at first, but then look who you are arguing against.
Anyone who is a liberal is uneducated, according to Silverchild, because we all know he went to Harvard.
I've read some of your articles, the sentence structure resembles an Oregon State dropout more than anything.
Anyone who is a liberal is uneducated, according to Silverchild, because we all know he went to Harvard.
I've read some of your articles, the sentence structure resembles an Oregon State dropout more than anything.
for all those that missed it in the bomb iran thread, here it is again.
The Bush I WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR v. The Bush we got.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1019.htm
Yeah, he was my governor for a while, and he did a lot of good things for the state of texas. Loved the guy to death while he was here. When he became president, he went so far to the right it wasnt even remotely humorous.
I know usually my posts are short, punctuation lacking, and, all in all, a failed attempt to show my superiority. However, I think I need to show my true colors for once.
Yes, I did vote for George Bush in the last election. Yes, I am a registered [uneducated] Democrat. Do I think George Bush has done a good job in office? Well yes, compared to the potential I saw in others, he has done exactly what I expected. He HAS (dont argue or I'll post the senate approved bills from senate.gov) lowered taxes for the upper class. Top 15% approximately (the basic structure says anyone who earns more than $100,000 per year). However, he pulled a "Democrat Move" by actually RAISING the taxes of those in the [under $35,000] tax bracket by about .5%. I dont have state taxes taken out of my check, and I can show you two 80hr weeks with higher taxes taken out of the later one (couldnt find documentation on this, so we'll just call this my observation).
Secondly, as a REPUBLIC, we elect a leader that will do what? BEST REFLECT OUR WANTS AND NEEDS. With an approval rating of what, 32% (thats a guess, it took too long to find the bill for that tax cut) Id say hes not fulfilling his part of the deal. Why do you think his approval rate is so low? Do you think we approve of the war in Iraq? To a large degree, I'd say no. Does it mean that we dont approve of the job our men and women are doing in Iraq? No. It just means they shouldn't be there in the first place.
The CIA said Sadaam had WMDs in Iraq, PERFECT REASON to go there, totally agree with that move. Oh, look, we didnt find them. Time to follow the rest of the worlds cue and GET OUT OF IRAQ, WE DONT BELONG THERE.
LOOK OVER THERE. North Korea ACTUALLY HAS NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY. Do you think that should be something to FULLY investigate, George? Yes, I know that we have a small force in Korea, but personally I think it would be a better use of our time to control that threat. But wait, what can Haliburton do in Korea...There's no rebuilding at the highest bid...there's no oil lines to lay...THERES NO PROFIT IN NORTH KOREA.
If our job is as peace keepers why aren't we helping the Israelies in a war we helped start, why arent we preventing an inevitable war with Korea? Because there is no money in it. Sure, we'll definitely provide the contracts to help the Israelies fight their war (even though we now get a lot of our military equipment from them), but as far as helping them, we are hands off. Thats a holy land war, we dont like crusades.
Look, Im rambling, the overall point of this was, that George Bush as our Republic's leader needs to reflect our educated views on Iraq, and not the GOPs misguided "Finish what you start" views. Im tired of being over there, and im tired of losing friends (3 so far). Its just gotten out of hand, and I dont think George H W filled George Jr in on what happened to the Russians when they messed with Afghanistan..........
Speaking of Afghanistan, whatever happened to that bearded guy who claimed responsibility for crashing planes into the WTC....Wasn't that why we were in the middle east to begin with. I gaurentee if you put a high enough price on Osama's head, the problem will take care of itself.
Enough of my rant, Silverchild, I agree with a lot that this President has done, but blantantly ignoring the American people's voice is just unacceptable. I know every president Democrat and Republican has done it, but this is rediculous. What do the American people have to gain by the international choices that he has made? That is the real question we have to ask.
The Bush I WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR v. The Bush we got.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1019.htm
Yeah, he was my governor for a while, and he did a lot of good things for the state of texas. Loved the guy to death while he was here. When he became president, he went so far to the right it wasnt even remotely humorous.
I know usually my posts are short, punctuation lacking, and, all in all, a failed attempt to show my superiority. However, I think I need to show my true colors for once.
Yes, I did vote for George Bush in the last election. Yes, I am a registered [uneducated] Democrat. Do I think George Bush has done a good job in office? Well yes, compared to the potential I saw in others, he has done exactly what I expected. He HAS (dont argue or I'll post the senate approved bills from senate.gov) lowered taxes for the upper class. Top 15% approximately (the basic structure says anyone who earns more than $100,000 per year). However, he pulled a "Democrat Move" by actually RAISING the taxes of those in the [under $35,000] tax bracket by about .5%. I dont have state taxes taken out of my check, and I can show you two 80hr weeks with higher taxes taken out of the later one (couldnt find documentation on this, so we'll just call this my observation).
Secondly, as a REPUBLIC, we elect a leader that will do what? BEST REFLECT OUR WANTS AND NEEDS. With an approval rating of what, 32% (thats a guess, it took too long to find the bill for that tax cut) Id say hes not fulfilling his part of the deal. Why do you think his approval rate is so low? Do you think we approve of the war in Iraq? To a large degree, I'd say no. Does it mean that we dont approve of the job our men and women are doing in Iraq? No. It just means they shouldn't be there in the first place.
The CIA said Sadaam had WMDs in Iraq, PERFECT REASON to go there, totally agree with that move. Oh, look, we didnt find them. Time to follow the rest of the worlds cue and GET OUT OF IRAQ, WE DONT BELONG THERE.
LOOK OVER THERE. North Korea ACTUALLY HAS NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY. Do you think that should be something to FULLY investigate, George? Yes, I know that we have a small force in Korea, but personally I think it would be a better use of our time to control that threat. But wait, what can Haliburton do in Korea...There's no rebuilding at the highest bid...there's no oil lines to lay...THERES NO PROFIT IN NORTH KOREA.
If our job is as peace keepers why aren't we helping the Israelies in a war we helped start, why arent we preventing an inevitable war with Korea? Because there is no money in it. Sure, we'll definitely provide the contracts to help the Israelies fight their war (even though we now get a lot of our military equipment from them), but as far as helping them, we are hands off. Thats a holy land war, we dont like crusades.
Look, Im rambling, the overall point of this was, that George Bush as our Republic's leader needs to reflect our educated views on Iraq, and not the GOPs misguided "Finish what you start" views. Im tired of being over there, and im tired of losing friends (3 so far). Its just gotten out of hand, and I dont think George H W filled George Jr in on what happened to the Russians when they messed with Afghanistan..........
Speaking of Afghanistan, whatever happened to that bearded guy who claimed responsibility for crashing planes into the WTC....Wasn't that why we were in the middle east to begin with. I gaurentee if you put a high enough price on Osama's head, the problem will take care of itself.
Enough of my rant, Silverchild, I agree with a lot that this President has done, but blantantly ignoring the American people's voice is just unacceptable. I know every president Democrat and Republican has done it, but this is rediculous. What do the American people have to gain by the international choices that he has made? That is the real question we have to ask.
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
So, you wouldn't mind if I monitored your emails and tapped your phone lines? I've gotta do my American duty and help protect the country from terrorism. Silverchild, you don't mind if I peek in every now and then either, do ya?
Before you ask, yes I know how. It's extremely easy.
So...If it is found that our president is guilty of leaking CIA info, you'd want him executed?
Yes or no. No debates or right wingism.
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
And remember you guys...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act_of_2005
The more this administration tries to secure you from "Terrorism"
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html
The easier you will succumb to it.
The old saying is true... those who trade privacy for security deserve neither, and ultimately will posess neither.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act_of_2005
The more this administration tries to secure you from "Terrorism"
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html
The easier you will succumb to it.
The old saying is true... those who trade privacy for security deserve neither, and ultimately will posess neither.
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
True enough but the majority of Americans backed the war in Iraq when it started and that's when we made the commitment we still now endure. Sure you can say we should be looking for ways to get us out but you can't bash Bush for making a opinion back decision, hindsight is 20/20
No, we backed the war in Afghanistan that suddenly turned from Al Queda and osama Bin laden to saddam....
I can't remember the last time i heard somethign about Al queda or osama on the news...... and we still didn't finish goal number one because bush got sidetracked and started to finish daddies war.
Regardless of how i fee about the war in iraq (i'm not opposed to it or what we did), i just want to know wtf happened to the other war that kidna just ended without ever doing anything.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
I'll make this short and sweet
We went to war with Saddam because he directly threatened us on Al Jazeera that he had weapons on US soil and loyal people to carry out attacks.
I've gone into more and more detail in the past on this forum, but it goes ignored. Back to your regularly scheduled horseshit.
We went to war with Saddam because he directly threatened us on Al Jazeera that he had weapons on US soil and loyal people to carry out attacks.
I've gone into more and more detail in the past on this forum, but it goes ignored. Back to your regularly scheduled horseshit.
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
go back and look at the polls, the majority of America backed the war in Iraq when we made the commitment
Cel is right that did happen. Another alos often overlooked aspect of the was is that Syria's leader Kadafi (SP?) turned over huge stock piles of WMD in late 2003, far more then our intel knew they had...
Who gave it to them and who stood to gain by getting rid of allot of WMD under the radar? I'll give ya a hint, they share a border...
Cel is right that did happen. Another alos often overlooked aspect of the was is that Syria's leader Kadafi (SP?) turned over huge stock piles of WMD in late 2003, far more then our intel knew they had...
Who gave it to them and who stood to gain by getting rid of allot of WMD under the radar? I'll give ya a hint, they share a border...
