poll shows americans hate the draft...

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by Airjockie+Jun 25 2005, 01:16 AM-->

SolReaver

@Jun 25 2005, 12:50 AM
You have a terrible outlook on things...very immoral and unethical. Im sorry to read what you have to type, but we both know that nothing you or I say to each other will have any effect on what we think. Im gonna leave it at that

[post=516304]Quoted post[/post]​

yup...I do. Been there done that, I have freinds that are there getting shot up for fucken BS

Your friends signed up for the military on their on choice. Don't act like taxpayers like myself aren't doing their part. I pay your military buddies' paychecks. That pretty signing bonus and perks they get, are thanks to people like me. Just cause they are there toting their guns doesn't mean im not doing my part.

Im not in favor of the war and I will NEVER willingly join the army. Have all the goddamn recruiting fuckers call me 100 times a day and offer me whatever, its not going to happen. Unpatriotic? Maybe. But its kinda hard to be patriotic about a country that you don't agree with 90% of the shit that is going on.

Now if it was a situation where we were being invaded and the only way I would remain free was to fight, then point me in the direction of the nearest recruiting office.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by SolReaver+Jun 25 2005, 12:56 AM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Jun 24 2005, 01:25 PM

We were all born in the technological age. We were born into a thriving country. Basically all born with silverspoons in our mouths compared to our anchestors. We have so many more modern conviences and other things that we rely on than our forefathers.

Modern conveniences? Who gives a fuck? Its ALL about relevance. We have cell phones, and all these "convenient" gadgets, so we use them.

But guess what. There was a time when there was a few homosapiens that didnt have or know anything were walking the earth, and look how our species turned out. We dont rely on this shit, we have it. Its not like we wouldnt survive without it. Relevance is the common denominator, and that applies to so many things in life.

[post=516308]Quoted post[/post]​

"Its not like we wouldnt survive without it."

Can I send most people out into the woods with nothing and ask them to survive? Ask modern youth to make a fire, or hunt with something other than a gun...or even with a gun, ask a youth to survive on his own, see what happens.

You ever see the show survivor? You ever see how clueless are when it comes to doing the things are ancestors had to do to survive? Some of those people practically die and they're out there for 30 days and are given half their supplies.

My point is the youth of America is spoiled compared to those of the past. Modern conveniences and the general overall living standards have increased 10 folds over the last 100 years, over the last 50 years, and especially over the last 20 years. So why then with this great life where mindless kinds can sit online and make posts just like the one that was started here, bitching about how bad things are, would kids ever want to go up in arms? Hell, most kids dont want to have blue collar jobs anymore, thats too labor intensive, they'll take white collar jobs. We, the youth of America, have it too good and thats why the enlistment numbers have been low and will continue to be low since before Vietnam... (after an attack like 9/11, Pearl Harbor, etc., enlistment numbers will increase but will quickly go back down.)

 

[totalburnout]

Your friends signed up for the military on their on choice. Don't act like taxpayers like myself aren't doing their part. I pay your military buddies' paychecks. That pretty signing bonus and perks they get, are thanks to people like me. Just cause they are there toting their guns doesn't mean im not doing my part.

Golf clap**

Everyone pays taxes, you're not volunteering. Even if you are volunteering, you're not donating the majority of your money to support the troops.

When you speak out against the war, you're only hurting those soldiers over there.

Therefore you're really not helping in the least, not anymore then you, me, or the bum next to us.

Im not in favor of the war and I will NEVER willingly join the army. Have all the goddamn recruiting fuckers call me 100 times a day and offer me whatever, its not going to happen. Unpatriotic? Maybe. But its kinda hard to be patriotic about a country that you don't agree with 90% of the shit that is going on.

Right here examplifies my point about the youth of America.

Hey, atleast you're so lucky to live in a country WHERE YOU HAVE THE CHOICE. I highly doubt you even understand how good you have it though.

Now if it was a situation where we were being invaded and the only way I would remain free was to fight, then point me in the direction of the nearest recruiting office.

Heroic...

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by SolReaver@Jun 25 2005, 08:00 AM
Your friends signed up for the military on their on choice. Don't act like taxpayers like myself aren't doing their part. I pay your military buddies' paychecks. That pretty signing bonus and perks they get, are thanks to people like me. Just cause they are there toting their guns doesn't mean im not doing my part.

[post=516313]Quoted post[/post]​

You sure do have a sorry ass conception of what the military does. Toting guns? When we are "toting guns" it is in a war zone, or training for a warzone, not serving fucking coffee at god damn Starbucks. And don't bullshit yourself with that "I pay your salary" shit, probably about .00000001 cents of you taxes goes to our salaries. And those nice "perks" would that be waking up at 0500 everyday? or working till 1700 after that? I know, maybe they're being away from your family and friends for year(s) at a time? No, oh you must mean the $1000-??? bonus that gets taxed to pay our salaries? Living conditions, that must be it, no wait, mostly we live in highly controlled enviroments with a bunch of other guys, damn...I got it, it's the traveling to forgein lands, unfortunely we get shot at, but hey, we're there. Or maybe even if you are 100 times smarter than someone that out ranks you, you still have to listen to there bullshit and do shit you know is retarded, and wrong? Don't fool yourself, being in the military isn't some fucking calkwalk. Don't mistake this for a "you should pity the military" or "you better show the respect deserved" but what I ask is that you don't talk out of you ass and try to justify your own shortcomings by trying to pass it off as something it is not.

 

[xj0hnx]

I shouldn't have said shortcomings, since joining the military is a choice, not an attribute, sorry.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Blanco@Jun 25 2005, 08:00 PM
Oh shit, here it comes. The bullshit, "you're an unAmerican, commie, pinko, fucking pussy if you don't WANT to join the military and you have zero rights to say anything bad about anything until you do!!!"

And John, that's because you joined the Army...you should've joined the Air Force.

(p.s. I've spent more time on an A.F.B. and with an E-10 than most of you ever will...even the guys who actually are in the service.)

[post=516424]Quoted post[/post]​

I'll never call someone a pinko for not wanting to join I will tell someone they are full of shit when they get all high and mighty and try the "I pay your salary" routine though, and trying to make is sound like we don't do shit though. Yes, we work for the government, and taxes people pay (including us) pay our salaries, along with every other federal employee, former presidents retirement, gas for all federal vehicles, food in the dining facilities of federaly funded day cares, and on and on, oh, and the mailman the brings you nice shiny parts, try to tell him so BS like that. And yes, even my dad told me I should have joined the Air Force His words were "You know, you have a problem with authority, and that's not going to fly real well in the Army".

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 25 2005, 03:57 PM
I'll never call someone a pinko for not wanting to join I will tell someone they are full of shit when they get all high and mighty and try the "I pay your salary" routine though, and trying to make is sound like we don't do shit though.

[post=516449]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't want to join, and I support John's view 100% here too. At least I'm proud that I'm in a position now to help the military effort, no matter how misguided people think the goals or motives are.

 

[BigJ]

I agree with that 100% Blanco, and the same with John's view.

It's like at my work, people will talk and not get respect, and there are the people who do, don't say shit about what they done, and get full respect from everyone.

 

[E-dogg]

Originally posted by Blanco@Jun 26 2005, 12:02 PM
I personally have a problem with any public servent, be it the mailman or a Navy SEAL, who thinks that they deserve anything simply because of their position...as a public servent. Even the President is a public servent who commands no more respect that he deserves, through is actions.

[post=516600]Quoted post[/post]​

I agree with this statement. I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I'll use the 9/11 firefighters for example. People are still talking about how they are great heroes and stuff and imo they were just doing their fucking job. I mean, it sucks that they died of course and I feel bad for them and their families but don't put em up on a pedestal for doing their job that is usually cake. I don't have people putting bumperstickers on their cars or wearing hats that say Eggroll House when I have to put up with a dickhead on a delivery.

As far as the statements regarding "You don't know how good you have it" etc etc..
Yeah and you do? I mean is it our fault that we were born into a more advanced society?? Thats the whole point of existence regarding our children right? To make their lives easier than what ours was? I always see bumperstickers saying things like "Like your freedom? Thank a vet!" Well if I happened to run across a veteran of the American Revolution I'll be sure to do that. However all other wars except World War II were no threat to the U.S. whatsoever. We were simply meddling in other peoples business. I would love to believe that we could go to the middle east and dispose of all the horrible dictatorships there and around the world but ya know what? If people can not throw off the yoke of oppression themselves then they are not ready to govern themselves. I mean we get rid of Saddam and everyone is happy. Next thing ya know ya ot people marching holding signs that say shit like "America Leave, or we will make you!!" 1st off, yeah fucking right. You couldn't even get rid of Saddam. This is an example of what I mean though. These people are ungrateful and incapable of helping themselves. You can lead a horse to water but ya cant make it drink up democracy. The fact is, if this area didn't have so much control over the economic fate of our country and the rest of the world we wouldn't give a rat's ass about it. I mean there is lots of oppression going on in Africa and we're not over there handing out beatdowns.

I personally (obviously) don't agree with the war. However I do support our troops and I hate the fact that if you don't support the war people try to twist it into the fact that you aren't supporting the troops. Thats not how it is at all. I think the troops are doing very good things there that aren't noted on tv for the most part, like the building of schools etc etc. However I feel bad that they are there for less than admirable reasons and they are fucking lied to and fed a bunch of propaganda about "protecting our freedom" and bullshit like that. It disgusts me. We need to get the troops home imo. One part of me wishes we could save every country and have a peaceful global community. The other part of me realizes this isn't going to happen and wants to destroy any opposition to the U.S. and do no less to them than what they would do to us. If most middle eastern countries had a nuke they would use it against us, why should we do any less to them right? Its a conundrum that I wish we had the answer too. But since it is such a tough problem I think we should refrain from any action. Turn inward and focus on making our country great again. Perhaps pour the majority of our money into working out the kinks in the hydrogen economy so that every nation can be self sufficient.

 

[totalburnout]

I agree with this statement. I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I'll use the 9/11 firefighters for example. People are still talking about how they are great heroes and stuff and imo they were just doing their fucking job. I mean, it sucks that they died of course and I feel bad for them and their families but don't put em up on a pedestal for doing their job that is usually cake. I don't have people putting bumperstickers on their cars or wearing hats that say Eggroll House when I have to put up with a dickhead on a delivery.

They put their life on the line, do you?


Now I'm not one to say oh the great firefighters of 9/11, because I know that most that rushed into the building had no idea it was going to collapse *BUT* you have to respect the firefighters, especially the volunteers that went into the unknown wreckage and looked for survivors, not knowing how dangerous it would be to them.


I wouldn't call the majority heros because hey, some of them stole jewelry and money and other things from helpless victims when they were at ground zero but there were heros in the bunch.

Same is to be said for police officers. Do I think a meter maid is a hero? No. Do I think someone who puts their life on the line knowing there can be grave consequences and does so for the benefit of the people has the attributes of a hero? Yes.

There's always going to be good cops, bad cops, good people, bad people. Some people just ride on the coattails of others and are just cowards, while other people brave into the unknown with intentions other than personal gain. The latter are heros in my book.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by E-dogg@Jun 26 2005, 01:21 PM
As far as the statements regarding "You don't know how good you have it" etc etc..
Yeah and you do? I mean is it our fault that we were born into a more advanced society?? Thats the whole point of existence regarding our children right? To make their lives easier than what ours was? I always see bumperstickers saying things like "Like your freedom? Thank a vet!" Well if I happened to run across a veteran of the American Revolution I'll be sure to do that. However all other wars except World War II were no threat to the U.S. whatsoever. We were simply meddling in other peoples business. I would love to believe that we could go to the middle east and dispose of all the horrible dictatorships there and around the world but ya know what? If people can not throw off the yoke of oppression themselves then they are not ready to govern themselves. I mean we get rid of Saddam and everyone is happy. Next thing ya know ya ot people marching holding signs that say shit like "America Leave, or we will make you!!" 1st off, yeah fucking right. You couldn't even get rid of Saddam. This is an example of what I mean though. These people are ungrateful and incapable of helping themselves. You can lead a horse to water but ya cant make it drink up democracy.

Hey genius, do you understand that the French were the reason why we won the American Revolution? It was the French's supplies and support that allowed us to win.

So if other people weren't there to help us, we would have fallen. Why shouldn't we help others in the same way we were helped? Thats the premise of this country, and people like yourself don't understand it. Thus my statement that the youth of America does not understand how good they have it.

I'm young and understand that my life has been a cakewalk. The question is, do you? Most don't.

I'm thankful for how easy its been even though I've gone through "rougher" times than most around me.

The fact is, if this area didn't have so much control over the economic fate of our country and the rest of the world we wouldn't give a rat's ass about it. I mean there is lots of oppression going on in Africa and we're not over there handing out beatdowns.

Every war was fought for gain. Every single war. The revolution, the civil war, vietnam, both world wars, golf war, this war, war over the native american's land, war between cave men fighting over a woman.

Even the crusades, a "holy war" was fought over finnacial gain.

Everything in life is motivated by self gain, so don't kid yourself.

As for not helping other countries out, I'm sorry that we're not stomping a mudhole in Africa, we're only sending them billions of dollars in support...

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by E-dogg @ Jun 26 2005+ 01:21 PM-->

I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I'll use the 9/11 firefighters for example. People are still talking about how they are great heroes and stuff and imo they were just doing their fucking job.

Just doing their job, which happens to be very physically demanding, and requires more BALLS than almost any other civilian job. It takes a truely brave motherfucker to run into a burning building to save someone ELSES life. Have you ever given something so selflessly? "Just doing their job"? No, you are just doing your job, they are making a safer world, actually helping people in life and death situations, not delivering eggrolls.

Originally posted by E-dogg @ Jun 26 2005@ 01:21 PM
As far as the statements regarding "You don't know how good you have it" etc etc..
Yeah and you do?

Yes, as a mtter of fact I have first hand knowledge from two continents that you have it a million times better than people in the Middle East. Everybody talks about freedoms when they say that, but the things you are really taking for granted are things like running water, sewers, food, sanitation, etc...

E-dogg @ Jun 26 2005@ 01:21 PM
]I always see bumperstickers saying things like "Like your freedom? Thank a vet!" Well if I happened to run across a veteran of the American Revolution I'll be sure to do that.

The phrase isn't directed at a singular group in relation a particular war, it is the fact that through service to our country, which in turn provides freedom, they deserve respect.

As a recent departee from the Middle East, I can tell you that the majority of soldiers there know they are not there for the "freedom" of America. Even the delusional ones understand that it is a greater good, not directly aiming at some oppression that could encrouch upon America.


And I am still in awe that you even had the audacity to compare delivering eggrolls to being a fireman, omfg...

 

[E-dogg]

In response to NEW2thecarscene... When you start an argument there is no need to immediately insult the person you are debating. Your sarcasm in calling me genius was noted. Usually when someone resorts to insults it signals that they have a weak argument, usually. Am I aware that the French helped us in the revolution... Well since I have a double major, one being pharmacy and the other being History I would say I am well versed in the American Revolution. The French had a VERY minor role in the war imo. They helped....sure. Mainly with the naval battles. The real impact was the fact that Brittain was simultaneously fighting wars in India as well as other places on the globe. So you don't need to quote history to me.

As far as having the audacity to compare eggrolls to firefighting.... You have a good point and I wasn't trying to say it is the same. My point was that a job is a job. They signed up for the job, they get paid for it. I didn't ask them to be a fireman and neither did anyone else. They knew the risk when they took the job. If that isn't clear enough I apologize. As far as me giving to people selflessly. I admit I have yet to save someones life, I have yet to be in the situation where I needed to. However I do volunteer once a week at a free health clinic, filling prescriptions, counseling people on what they need to do with their medication etc etc... Does this mean I deserve special attention for volunteering. Fuck no it doesn't. I do it because it makes me feel better about myself and I like helping people.

You have 1st hand knowledge that I have it better than people in the middle east. No shit. Who doesn't know that. In this statement I thought the argument was about how much easier we had it because of modern technolgy. So my point here was you were born into this country the same as us, you have never been without these conveniences. When you were on other continents, in the military I assume, I am sure you had everything available to you that people have in the U.S. so I don't think you can preach about how you understand it and we don't. If you were in the middle east using plastic pop bottles for sandals and drinking from stagnant ponds, perhaps I would listen. But when I see stories of soldiers listening to their MP3 players while driving in tanks and making their own recording studios in Baghdad I don't buy into the whole "roughing it" thing.

 

[totalburnout]

Am I aware that the French helped us in the revolution... Well since I have a double major, one being pharmacy and the other being History I would say I am well versed in the American Revolution. The French had a VERY minor role in the war imo. They helped....sure. Mainly with the naval battles. The real impact was the fact that Brittain was simultaneously fighting wars in India as well as other places on the globe. So you don't need to quote history to me.

Weak argument? Everything I said was sound. I sarcastically called you a genius because you seemed to think you had a clue what was going on.


As for the quote above, I suggest you head back to college and re-do your major in history.


French having a very minor role in the American Revolution? Hardly... They provided America with the supplies we needed. Their help wasn't primarly with "hands on" action but with providing the supplies the American revolutionist desperately needed and had no other means of acquiring. Without the French's supplies, no other foreign country would have had the supplies necessary or power necessary to support the American revolunist.

This isn't an argument about Great Britain spreading itself thin across all its colonies until very near the end of the American Revolution, but with helping foreign countries because you said if foreign countries can't handle the war themselves then they're not ready. With that illogical reasoning I pointed out there would have never been an America for you to live in right now. Hence you don't know how well you have it.

A foreign country, yes the French, those "wee wee" stuck up pukes that won't fight a war now if we need them, helped us fight a war when NO ONE ELSE WOULD. They ALLOWED THE REVOLUTIONIST TO WIN THE WAR, NOT BY HANDS ON ACTION BUT BY SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE OUT OF AUMMINITION, GUNS, AND OTHER SUPPLIES.

Any "historian" will tell you that.

I've hand many history professors that were highly educated and locally reknowned, until this year when I had a professor that was universally reknowned and who honorarily spoke for foreign countries for the past 30 years or so and all agree with what I have just said. I don't know where you got your whole cock and bull idea that "the french really didn't help us win..."

The french's help is one of the single greatest reasons why America is "the world's big brother" and helps foreign countries that it thinks are in need.

 

[totalburnout]

E-dogg... just stop.


There's no comparison in what you're talking about delivering egg rolls to hard working, selflessly giving firemen and police men.

Not all of them are heros, but just because when they signed up for the job they knew that they could be risking their lives should not strip them of any honor and thanks, infact it should add to their honor and praise. They signed up for the job, some even volunteer, to put their life on the line. The ones who are being paid to put their life on the line are no different than the ones volunteering.

Same is to be said of soldiers serving in combat. I don't care if they are being paid or not. If they weren't there, then people like yourself and myself would HAVE TO BE THERE.

shut up and be grateful. you have no idea how good you have it.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by E-dogg Posted Today+ 09:17 PM-->

So my point here was you were born into this country the same as us, you have never been without these conveniences. When you were on other continents, in the military I assume, I am sure you had everything available to you that people have in the U.S. so I don't think you can preach about how you understand it and we don't. If you were in the middle east using plastic pop bottles for sandals and drinking from stagnant ponds, perhaps I would listen. But when I see stories of soldiers listening to their MP3 players while driving in tanks and making their own recording studios in Baghdad I don't buy into the whole "roughing it" thing.

Actually no, we didn't have everything availible to us that you have here, we were elated when we could get across the street to a real post that had cokes. I can preach about it because I have seen first hand how other countries live, and what true poverty is. No shit, I didn't drink from a fucking pond, no shit Americans brought with them things to make a year in some god forsaken desert more homey, wow, your revalation just made me realize that because you have an MP3 player it doesn't matter that you're in a desert fighting some BS war, and have people constantly trying to kill you, thanks for putting that into perspective for me. I really don't think you do have a grasp of what life is like there, or any place like that.

And there are indeed soldeirs there roughing it, going without showers, staying up for days, patroling hostile villages, receiving motar fire, yea I guess you're right, those are just everyday annoyances, they should toughen up.

E-dogg Posted Today@ 09:17 PM
However I do volunteer once a week at a free health clinic, filling prescriptions, counseling people on what they need to do with their medication etc etc... Does this mean I deserve special attention for volunteering. Fuck no it doesn't.

Attention maybe not, recognition, yes. People are so wrapped up in their own worlds it's getting less and less common to find people that will give their time top help others, and your attitude reflects a more sinister apathy that has been brewing in America for years and years. The whole "Who cares" ideal, well I fucking care, I'm sure that anyone that received treatment at your clinic cares, and I am sure that anyone that has been rescued, and or protected by one of the many public servents cares.

 

[E-dogg]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Jun 26 2005, 03:45 PM
I've hand many history professors that were highly educated and locally reknowned, until this year when I had a professor that was universally reknowned and who honorarily spoke for foreign countries for the past 30 years or so and all agree with what I have just said.   I don't know where you got your whole cock and bull idea that "the french really didn't help us win..." 

[post=516669]Quoted post[/post]​

Amazing that you had all of these famous teachers and you failed to learn how to spell renown.

This topic doesn't seem to be about the American Revolution but.... You can say what you wish, the war was won because Britain was spread to thin, the colonies were no longer relied upon as much economically because of India being added tp the British Crown and it was impossible to keep commands as well as supplies flowing to the British generals. Add to that the fact that Washington was fighting a guerilla war and the British just figured it wasn't worth it. The French did help, however they weren't as big an aid, in my opinion, as most people make them out to be. One of the most common examples people use is the fact that French commanders were sent to help train the American troops. At the time the French had the most dominant land army and the british ruled the seas. However, seeing that Washington realized he could not defeat a better equiped, professional army he turned to guerilla warfare. Something he observed firsthand in the French-Indian war when he was captured.

And to 92B16vx... Stop trying to shift the focus. I give much respect to all the soldiers everywhere. I stated that in my first response to this topic. How about quoting that?? The argument started originally because someone said that people couldn't survive w/o modern conveniences. I stated , basically, that that person has never lived w/o them either so how can they preach to anyone?? The argument I am presenting is that someone can not quote to me that they understand how good they have it because they served in a place with no technology while they had all the conveniences that we have in the U.S. The rebuttal was that they couldn't go buy a coke. Yeah... that sucks.

So basically, keep the argument for what it is. Don't try and say that I'm saying soldiers don't deserve respect or that it doesn't take guts to do the stuff that they do. It does... I am saying that if someone signs up for a job they know the risk involved. If their job is dangerous, hey they know that. An electrician isn't considered a hero for working under dangerous conditions and neither should a firefighter. They both take chances, one job happens to be considered more heroic.

Why is recruitment down?? Because we're in a damn war. This leads into my point. People aren't joining because we are at war. If we weren't at war recruitment would be just fine. See it's like a gamble people take, and it pays off usually. "Hmm, I'll sign up do my 2-4 yrs., get money for college and be good to go as long as we don't go to war in that time." But when we're at war, "Fuck no I'm no signing up people are gonna be shooting at me!" or "Fuck I gotta get outta here as soon as possible!" Why the hell do ya think they put a hold on people leaving?? Because people don't want to die. Most people don't sign up because they are brave or heroic, they just want the money for college and the free training. Some people are brave and wanna help their country, but not many. Same with the firefighters. 90% of the time they are in no immediate danger. I would like to see some figures of the mortality rate of firefighters compared to construction workers or something like that. I'm sure the firefighters live much longer than most "normal non-heroic" jobs. The last fire in my town I can recall occurred right behind the fire station, and it fucking burnt down.

 

[xj0hnx]

The argument I am presenting is that someone can not quote to me that they understand how good they have it because they served in a place with no technology while they had all the conveniences that we have in the U.S. The rebuttal was that they couldn't go buy a coke. Yeah... that sucks.

No, actually my rebuttal was that I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES real poverty, grief, strife and walked among it, and talked to and intereacted with those in it, and yes I can, without reprehension, tell you that you have it good. I can't count how many Iraqi's Kosovars, Albanians, Serbians, I have talked to that would kill to have a quarter of the opportunities you have that you blow off as rights.

The not being able to buy a coke was towards you assuming that everyone in Iraq right now has a fucking 7-11 on their base, and a Burger King in the neighborhood, and that is not true, just because some dicks at division headquarters have some nice shit that some high ranking officers pulled some strings to get, or that the bigger logistics bases have a lot of nice things, don't think for a minute that there aren't soldiers there that have not much more than what the military gives them and what they have built themselves to improve their time there, and that everyone is walking around beebopping to the latest 50cent CD while cruising through some back woods town looking for Abdul and has stash of AK's and hash.

Why is recruitment down?? Because we're in a damn war. This leads into my point. People aren't joining because we are at war. If we weren't at war recruitment would be just fine.

Actually numbers skyrocketed when we first went into Afganistan, people were signing up to go fight. Numbers are down now because everything in teh middle east has taken an unpopular turn, and people are believing less and less in teh cause.

Why the hell do ya think they put a hold on people leaving?? Because people don't want to die.

Again, no, it's to maintain a qualified fighting force, and experianced personnel. If you are in the service, and a war starts, you still can't just leave because you're scared. Stop lose/Stop moves are put in place to keep experianced people in units that are deploying.

I'm sure the firefighters live much longer than most "normal non-heroic" jobs.

You think maybe that could be because they aren't as fat and lazy as a lot of "normal" people, and that they are trained to do their job because it's dangerous? Naw, that couldn't be it.

 

[xj0hnx]

I would like to see some figures of the mortality rate of firefighters compared to construction workers or something like that.

Here ya go
107 firefighters in 2004
Construction laborers in 2003 had 289 fatalities, with about 938,000 general construction workers workers employed, There's approximitly 278,300 paid firemen in the US. I didn't feel like sifting through hundreds of online resources, so I grabbed these from fairly reliable places

 

[Battle Pope]

lol

You'd think people would learn.