Smog Inspection - Tuning, Anyone

[MikeBergy]

So I passed all aspects of the smog inspection except for idle. Here is the results

So, basically, I am getting incomplete combustion at idle, My afr's are dead on, o2 is active, I just need some pointers from some people that may know what they are talking about. This engine is my first tuning experience. My list of mods from front to back:

B18A1:

AEM cold air intake w/ k&n filter
Stock IM, portmatched
DIY port and polish both intake, exhaust, and combustion ports.
Rocket Motorsports L21 cam regrinds - Int. Duration, 262 Int. Lift, 10.2 Exh. Duration 262, Exh. Lift, 10.2
Rocket Motorsports valvesprings
CP 11.5:1 custom forged pistons, raised wristpins, lightweight wristpins, 81.5mm overbore
Eagle extended length LS h-beams (Improves r/s ratio for ls blocks)
Stock LS exhaust mani and exhaust (i know, it's an athlete breathing through a straw
oem b16 oil cooler
Adjustable cam gears

Tuning equipment:

Innovate LM-1 Wideband
Tablet PC
Turboedit with full datalogging capabilities
Socketed PM6 obd0 ecu with datalogging port

If anybody has any idea about how to solve my high HC's at idle, that would be awesome. The car runs awesome, no knocking, except at high rpm, high load, and even then it's not really noticable.
BTW forged pistons definitely have a unique sound to them Video of driving to come when I pass smog. It is WAYYYY faster than it used to be.
to anyone who can help me solve my problem. TIA
Mike

 

[posol]

if you aren't getting complete combustion at idle, pull some timing.

what is your timing at 0 load, 750-800 rpms?

 

[MikeBergy]

Brian, I figured you'd reply, as you seem to be the only educated tuning person on the forum, dare I say I am getting more experienced with obd0 RTP as time goes by.
I figured you would ask that. If I send you my map, will you look it over? I don't have an EGT, which would probably help with this aspect of tuning. Lemme know, I can email you my turboedit map, along with the current TE revision I'm using. It's pretty sweet.

Let me know.
Mike

 

[SixtySecondAssassin]

I had the same problem last month. my HC's were high at idle. if you want a quick fix to get your sticker you can try a 2:1 mix of denatured alcohol and gas. worked for me.

also, when setting your timing, the service connector should be jumped to stop the ecu from pulling timing.

 

[eg6sir]

i failed on my idle HC level too.. mine measured at 276 still trying to figure out how to fix it..

 

[posol]

Quoted post[/post]]
Brian, I figured you'd reply, as you seem to be the only educated tuning person on the forum, dare I say I am getting more experienced with obd0 RTP as time goes by.
I figured you would ask that. If I send you my map, will you look it over? I don't have an EGT, which would probably help with this aspect of tuning. Lemme know, I can email you my turboedit map, along with the current TE revision I'm using. It's pretty sweet.

Let me know.
Mike

no need... just post the 4 or 6 cells in that area.
find where you idle via vacuum in milibars most likely, its the 2-4th columns when warm, and the 1st 3 rows...

 

[MikeBergy]

Quoted post[/post]]
no need... just post the 4 or 6 cells in that area.
find where you idle via vacuum in milibars most likely, its the 2-4th columns when warm, and the 1st 3 rows...

Yeah, I know where it's idling from my maptrace. It's pulling 16.20 degrees advance. I am sure I could pull a bit more. Any rules of thumb for adjusting the timing? I don't have an egt, so any ideas onhow much I should adjust it, or what's going to happen if I advance it too much?

I had the same problem last month. my HC's were high at idle. if you want a quick fix to get your sticker you can try a 2:1 mix of denatured alcohol and gas. worked for me.

also, when setting your timing, the service connector should be jumped to stop the ecu from pulling timing.

Lol I am in control of the ecu...the distributor is staying where it's at.

Quoted post[/post]]
i failed on my idle HC level too.. mine measured at 276 still trying to figure out how to fix it..

Yeah, mine is at 167ish... 276 is really high. Have you tuned it at all? My afr's are dead on... It's just my timing at idle that needs to be adjusted. The 2500rpm emissions test passed no problem. I have been suspicious of the idle since I first got it running, it's been erratic since I first started it. If you are in cali, and are obd0, I might be able to help you out once I get mine to pass. Should be within the week. It'd be easier if I had an egt...

 

[posol]

leave the timing where its at. lean it out some at idle. you can hit 17:1 at idel with no leaning out issues...

 

[MikeBergy]

Quoted post[/post]]
leave the timing where its at. lean it out some at idle. you can hit 17:1 at idel with no leaning out issues...

But is that going to affect the o2 sensor's operation? I am utilizing the stock o2 for the closed loop control at the smog station. I'm also not sure the car's compression is going to like it that lean. But I'll try it out. It's raining outside, and I have no more money till monday for another inspection, so I'll tune some more over the weekend. If I get an EGT, how do I go about interpreting the data?

 

[posol]

the egt won't tell you shit at idle-- thats for WOT pulls.

just lean it out around the idle area to the point where it still runs smooth. every car is different...

 

[MikeBergy]

Quoted post[/post]]
the egt won't tell you shit at idle-- thats for WOT pulls.

just lean it out around the idle area to the point where it still runs smooth. every car is different...

oh okay, gotcha. The smog tech was assking how I was tuning, and I told him wideband and programmable ecu, but that I wouldn't be able to tell how completely combusted the mixture was as it was coming out. He mentioned something about infrared something or other, and I thought maybe he was refering to something related to egt, so yeah. I'll lean it till it almost dies I just need to be low enough to pass. It's almost there.

 

[posol]

no, not till it almost dies... thats way too lean. you want it to idle nice and steady. so go lean it out until the idle starts to drop, then go back up a hair so its steady

 

[MikeBergy]

Quoted post[/post]]
no, not till it almost dies... thats way too lean. you want it to idle nice and steady. so go lean it out until the idle starts to drop, then go back up a hair so its steady

Yeah, I did that. It's around 16.5ish when fully warmed up.

 

[nfn15037]

You need to ADD timing not pull it for a more complete burn. 18* or so is where I have found the optimal range to be in that idle corner of the map. Lean it down to 16:1 and your N0x will go through the roof, there is nothing wrong with idling at 14-15:1 as long as the timing is correct.

For what its worth, that 02 sensor is probably hurting you. You get it all set up to where you think it should idle then the 02 sensor tried to apply some correction to that. Run it in open loop and go through your timing and fuel maps to make sure there aren't any sharp steps, like going from 16.5* to 22* of timing in the next cell over or down.

This car has 440 injectors, 11.75:1 compression and BC 3+ cams. Passed way way cleaner than a stock Integra.

 

[MikeBergy]

I need to get a timing light on it to see if it's actually pulling the correct timing. next tool on the 'to buy' list. For some reason, CALI doesn't have a NOx limit...

 

[nfn15037]

Well a timing light won't tell you much, since your base timing + the timing in the map is what the total timing will be. So like base 14 + 18 on the map gives you 32* total timing. Unless you have a mark on the crank pulley @ 32* or wherever else, it won't help. You SHOULD have set the base timing before starting to tune though.

 

[MikeBergy]

Well, the ignition timing hasn't been changed from stock on the map except in one spot in the upper RPM, where I pulled it to get rid of some mild knocking at high load, and I can always just reload the stock ignition values back into the ostrich. By base ignition, I'm guessing that you are talking about the advance on the distributor. I always assumed that the map stated the total advance. I'll reset the timing this weekend, hopefully I can afford a timing light after tonight at work.

So here will be my procedure.
1) Reload stock ignition map.
2) Start and warmup car to operating temps.
3) hookup service jumper
4) hookup timing light and set to whatever stock 'base' ignition advance is.
5) rotate distributor until timing is correct. Tighten distributor and I'm done.

Sound right? am I missing something?
thanks nfn.

 

[xenocron]

On an OBD0 vehicle, you shouldnt need to jumper the service connector to set the base timing with a light.

When you go back for a retest, are they only going to test your HC's or are they going to completely retest you?

Quoted post[/post]]
Well, the ignition timing hasn't been changed from stock on the map except in one spot in the upper RPM, where I pulled it to get rid of some mild knocking at high load, and I can always just reload the stock ignition values back into the ostrich. By base ignition, I'm guessing that you are talking about the advance on the distributor. I always assumed that the map stated the total advance. I'll reset the timing this weekend, hopefully I can afford a timing light after tonight at work.

So here will be my procedure.
1) Reload stock ignition map.
2) Start and warmup car to operating temps.
3) hookup service jumper
4) hookup timing light and set to whatever stock 'base' ignition advance is.
5) rotate distributor until timing is correct. Tighten distributor and I'm done.

Sound right? am I missing something?
thanks nfn.

 

[MikeBergy]

Quoted post[/post]]
On an OBD0 vehicle, you shouldnt need to jumper the service connector to set the base timing with a light.

When you go back for a retest, are they only going to test your HC's or are they going to completely retest you?

they will do a complete retest. This was actually just a pretest, basically the full test minus the result being sent to the DMV. The test will test everything as was shown above. No more, no less.

Regarding the service connector. Yeah, I didn't think I did, but with all these people on the forums saying to jump the service connector, I thought I was doing something wrong the last time I did a timing check with the light.

 

[MikeBergy]

EACV?

edit. Okay, I gotcha. That thing.