Turbo vs Supercharging

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Why is it a waste of money? The time it takes to figure out how to read compressor maps, figure out exactly what kind of trim of the turbo which would work best for your application, figure out all the pieces and parts you'd need, sure you could save a grand... but a JRSC at 6 psi for 2200 bucks is a waste of money?


The only two people I'd take any advice from on this board about supercharging is the only two people who've actually HAD a supercharger on their cars. That'd be Steve and Prowler. I do recall Prowler recommending it, and Steve reminiscing about how he missed the sound of the supercharger, the more broad power band, and the feel of the car on low boost.

. . . . .

I personally cannot wait to get it. I'm not expecting much. A mere 200 whp with i/h/e, gsr cams and 6 psi tuned on a chipped P28 are pretty much going to be my only engine modifications. Why is an SC a waste of cash?

If you dont want to read compresser maps, look at what other people are running on their motor's and copy their mods. I/e, if most people with D16z's and 1.5k turbo kits have cars running low 14's reliably, then copy their setup.

Im NOT advocating BLINDLY jumping into something. If you take shortcuts, your end result will NOT be the same as that of somebody who did their homework. . . . .



Broad powerband.

If you run a quick spooling turbo like a T25 / 14B / 16G/ T28 , then your powerband will be plenty broad enough.

A lot of people trying to advocate s/c's have never driven a turbocharged car on a daily basis and have NO clue what they are talking about. There is a LOT to take into account when talking about turbo lag & spool up time. Everbody only talks about turbo lag off the line.


**Edit** thats a 16G
 
2000si: a well pieced together it does not mean getting crappy parts, but i know what you mean..people get anxious and get that awesome ssauto/obx crap to get it done faster

cal: you turboing your s2k? get your comptech diff yet? :)
 
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s/c still suck... spend that 2200 on an all oem lsvtec build that will get you that same 200hp and be much more reliable, and i bet you still save money

and also, it is not fucking rocket science to figure out what turbo to use for your goals. You want to road race your civic? look into fast spooling ball bearing turbos such as the disco potato and what not, then if you decide you ever need to go a little faster, just turn the knob on the boost controller and get it retuned....

now what happens when the novelty of the sc on your civic wears off and your wanting more.... spend more money to buy pulleys that will only give you like 2 more psi? gotta love the ability to upgrade :rollseyes:


and the facts show, superchargers arent for honda's. They are for mustangs, camaro's and other v8 applications.

The novelty will eventually wear off, but I doubt I'm going to want more. However, as long as the SC is in good shape I can upgrade to a 10 lb kit and still be able to romp on it... last I checked that was a 4 pound upgrade, and it's more than I'll ever WANT on even a built engine. You talk about boost controllers; last I checked those where 200-400 bucks. What'd you spend on your DIY kit now? 1400?

Of course, after the novelty wears off, I'm thinking of going inside the engine itself for a full build. Last I recall, depending on the trim a disco potato would hold and carry boost on a b16, but if you started wanting more than 10 psi of boost, you'd have to get something with a larger trim anyway.

You've given me no facts on why SCs aren't for honda's. If they didn't give you some gain, nobody would make them FOR honda's. Step out of B's shadow and stop downplaying another type of forced induction because you don't think it's worth any time. After all, have you EVER done it?

Modifying cars is expensive either way you look at it. I would rather try something different, something that I've wanted to have. Boost. I researched turbo applications for two years, all the while trying to look at compressor maps only to retain headaches from that and trying to get straight answers on here. I researched nitrous for 3 months. I don't feel like doing an assload of plumbing, installing a window switch and mounting a bottle inside my trunk. I researched supercharging for 3 months. Turns out that supercharging is fairly cheap for the amount of hp you are claimed to receive. From 14x whp to 193-195 on 6 psi? How is 50 whp, for a kit you get EVERYTHING in, a waste of money?

blah blah SC's take a lot of power to make it, and a turbo would net you 200+ on that same setting.

Not everybody NEEDS a car with massive power for daily driving. No way in hell I want a 250 whp Civic in the middle of an 8 inch snow fall.

My all around point is, nobody cares what your OPINION is on supercharging. You've never even done it, so stop downplaying it like it's the worst thing you've ever tried to do. But I am glad you've at least made him aware of all his possibilities.


driver: I didn't mean to imply a DIY kit is rummaging through the junkyards looking for old used, possibly rusted parts, etc. But it does take a lot more time, and you're right people get anxious. Same reason why DIY'ers will throw a turbo and all of it's components in, go drive it around for a few days and then get it tuned. They just get anxious and start blowing shit up.
 
first off, where are you buying your 200-400 boost controller? now i know why you dont want to go turbo your one of those "i have to buy the most expensive part because it has to be the best people"

and your knocking me because i havent wasted money on supercharging a honda before, have you turbo'd a honda before? no? well then no one cares about your opinon about how hard of a concept it is to understand, and that if your not a rocket scientist then you must not be able to pick out the right turbo for your car

and no ive not spent 1400 on my "diy" kit. I plan to spend 1200 max TUNED so prolly only like a grand max for parts. And nots not really all "diy" but more of a planned selection of parts.

jrsc kit = almost 3k and you get your 50 hp
nitrous kit = 500-600 with all the parts for 50+ hp
"diy" turbo kit = 1200 or so TUNED for 100+ horsepower

now that is why i call the jrsc a waste of money.. im not saying it doesnt do its job, im saying its unefficient at doing its job for way too much money, like some business owners slob of a son working for him. This guy is paying his kid to slack off and be unproductive for twice the money he is paying to an overqualified employee.
cliffs: jrsc = loser son who sucks at his job for lots of money
"diy" turbo = overqualified employee who does it for half the pay
 
first off, where are you buying your 200-400 boost controller? now i know why you dont want to go turbo your one of those "i have to buy the most expensive part because it has to be the best people"

Actually no i'm not, but I don't want to buy SHIT products for my car.

and your knocking me because i havent wasted money on supercharging a honda before, have you turbo'd a honda before? no? well then no one cares about your opinon about how hard of a concept it is to understand, and that if your not a rocket scientist then you must not be able to pick out the right turbo for your car

I'm not knocking you, I'm knocking your attitude and biased opinions on doing something you haven't tried. Granted I haven't tried a turbo setup, but I'm also not KNOCKING THAT SETUP.

and no ive not spent 1400 on my "diy" kit. I plan to spend 1200 max TUNED so prolly only like a grand max for parts. And nots not really all "diy" but more of a planned selection of parts.

Have fun trying to not go over budget while you're having your car dyno tuned.

jrsc kit = almost 3k and you get your 50 hp
nitrous kit = 500-600 with all the parts for 50+ hp
"diy" turbo kit = 1200 or so TUNED for 100+ horsepower

http://www.jacksonracing.com/Shop/ViewProd...teIndexID=33371

What is this three grand shit you're spouting? Obviously you've never even researched it to the smallest bit, so why are you saying its a waste of money? Nitrous kits have more than the intial cost. Have you ever refilled a bottle? There goes 50-100 bucks depending on the shop that does it for each fill up.

As for your 100+ hp for 1200, Like I said; good luck trying to stay under that budget.

cliffs: jrsc = loser son who sucks at his job for lots of money
"diy" turbo = overqualified employee who does it for half the pay

JRSC = Decent gains for the money. PERFECT for a daily driven Civic who's owner wants full time boost with absolutely no lag. It's also wonderful for autocrossing. ALWAYS within boost.

DIY Turbo = Great for those who have the time and inclination to actually search and search, and yet search some more for the best prices on parts they'll need. I don't have the time or patience to do that.
 
whatever, you have your opinion about supercharging and i have mine

but how in the hell do you know that im going to go over budget? as of now im below what ive allotted to spend for the parts i have purchased. It just takes some patience to wait for the part you want for the price you can afford

case in point, i got my (real not knock off) garrett t3/t4 .60/.63 with turbonetics turbine housing for 225 shipped.. is that an insane deal yes it is. was it used? of course but you couldnt tell by just looking at it. And it is not a SHIT product just because i didnt pay 500 dollars for it

and about tuning, who said you need to go to a dyno to tune? my car is a dd that im just as concerned about part throttle tuning as i am peak hp/tq, so therefore on my budget a good street tune with a wb is more than enough.
 
I am actually doing some research on this topic and I am pretty bias when it comes to Honda and Mitsubishi Import or Domestic but I must say I am not even close to being impressed with superchargers especially on a Honda. Here checkout these dyno sheets and info.

<span style="color:red">Jackson Racing Supercharger Dyno sheet this is SAD! $1,995.00 </span>

Integra_gs_ls_rs.gif


<span style="color:red">Compare the boost between the above Supercharger setup and below Turbo setup..</span>
b18b_10psi_dyno2.jpg


<span style="color:red">B18B
ARP headstuds
550cc injectors
10psi
Uberdata tuned by rage2
stock fuel pump
stock fpr
stock everything else!
Pump gas
turbo kit $1250 + fuel $1000 + ARP's $110

This is why I will always suggest a turbo you may spend a bit more but hell of alot more performance. Now yes the supercharger is at 6psi and the turbo is at 10psi but even if you do 10psi w/supercharger you still wont get close to the turbos performance. Remember superchargers take hp/tq to make hp/tq thus why superchargers typically arent a good choice when it comes to Honda motors.
</span>
 
Quoted post[/post]]
I am actually doing some research on this topic and I am pretty bias when it comes to Honda and Mitsubishi Import or Domestic but I must say I am not even close to being impressed with superchargers especially on a Honda. Here checkout these dyno sheets and info.

<span style="color:red">Jackson Racing Supercharger Dyno sheet this is SAD! $1,995.00 </span>

Integra_gs_ls_rs.gif


<span style="color:red">Compare the boost between the above Supercharger setup and below Turbo setup..</span>
b18b_10psi_dyno2.jpg


<span style="color:red">B18B
ARP headstuds
550cc injectors
10psi
Uberdata tuned by rage2
stock fuel pump
stock fpr
stock everything else!
Pump gas
turbo kit $1250 + fuel $1000 + ARP's $110

This is why I will always suggest a turbo you may spend a bit more but hell of alot more performance. Now yes the supercharger is at 6psi and the turbo is at 10psi but even if you do 10psi w/supercharger you still wont get close to the turbos performance. Remember superchargers take hp/tq to make hp/tq thus why superchargers typically arent a good choice when it comes to Honda motors.
</span>


Did you read what Endyn did to the JRSC and ran MID 12's with full int. on a MOSTLY stock D16?? That is pretty impressive to me but who am I to say?? I know its not a Bseries, but a B will show better gains with teh same mods as a D.
As far as traction problems off the line. Softer compound tires, Good LSD (no phantom grip) Traction bars. Good struts and springs. Stiffer engine mounts. Wheel hop will be almost elimitated.
 
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whatever, you have your opinion about supercharging and i have mine

but how in the hell do you know that im going to go over budget? as of now im below what ive allotted to spend for the parts i have purchased. It just takes some patience to wait for the part you want for the price you can afford

case in point, i got my (real not knock off) garrett t3/t4 .60/.63 with turbonetics turbine housing for 225 shipped.. is that an insane deal yes it is. was it used? of course but you couldnt tell by just looking at it. And it is not a SHIT product just because i didnt pay 500 dollars for it

and about tuning, who said you need to go to a dyno to tune? my car is a dd that im just as concerned about part throttle tuning as i am peak hp/tq, so therefore on my budget a good street tune with a wb is more than enough.

Hand tuning will work, but once you get on the dyno you're going to want to play with settings. Dyno time costs assloads of cash.

You do it your way, I'll do it my way. My posts were to just show that there's more than one way to skin a cat. You'll never see an 11 second supercharged honda, guaranteed. But as for a daily driver, it's a toss up on what someone may do. Having all the options and researching all the options allows for people to have a broad view of what can be done.

I've researched into turbo kits myself; for 3k plus a kit with a GT28RS will net you about 40-50 whp on an otherwise stock and tuned B series. Which is right on par with what a JRSC will do as well.

I personally will be choosing the SC route because it is, in fact, cheaper than any turbo kit I've ever found and will have the same gains as a properly sized (read= minimal lag) turbocharger.
 
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Not everybody NEEDS a car with massive power for daily driving. No way in hell I want a 250 whp Civic in the middle of an 8 inch snow fall.

your 190 whp s/c'd civic wont perform well in a snowfall either :).



Supercharge your car if you want to, just dont be mad when you get beat by somebody who spent $700 less on a more powerfull/efficient setup on their honda.


I suggest you try and meet up with somebody who has a budget turbo'd honda and schedule a test drive. Your 'facts' about turbo lag are completely based on your longing for a reason to put a supercharger on a FWD car.
 
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Not everybody NEEDS a car with massive power for daily driving. No way in hell I want a 250 whp Civic in the middle of an 8 inch snow fall.

your 190 whp s/c'd civic wont perform well in a snowfall either :).



Supercharge your car if you want to, just dont be mad when you get beat by somebody who spent $700 less on a more powerfull/efficient setup on their honda.


I suggest you try and meet up with somebody who has a budget turbo'd honda and schedule a test drive. Your 'facts' about turbo lag are completely based on your longing for a reason to put a supercharger on a FWD car.

um first off... i'll make around 200 with bolt ons, and a supercharge can be disconnected simply be removing the drivebelt. Try that with a turbo honda. Secondly I don't care about drag racing, I'm not doing this to drag race on the streets. I'm doing it because it's something I simply want to do.

Thirdly I have met with people who have/had turbo'd hondas.

I've also watched people boost spike and blow the turbo and put a rod through the block.

My 'facts' about turbo lag are completely based on if you don't have a properly sized turbo you WILL have lag. Even on a GT28RS I wouldn't hit full boost until 3000-4000 rpm. Since I shift between 4 and 5k when driving normally, I'd barely boost at all. So what the fuck would be the point?
 
It appears that brian tries not to slander companies (unless its ssautochrome/XS Power). Id say your chances of getting a response is slim to none.
 
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It appears that brian tries not to slander companies (unless its ssautochrome/XS Power). Id say your chances of getting a response is slim to none.

I'm not looking for him to slander anyone. I was thinking about sending them my Z6 head for some work. If they're not up to par what with what they say I wanna know before I spend my hard earned money.
 
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