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This is a discussion on bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune in the Civic and CRX - EF forum
First off I am aware that d15b2 is about the worst engine to do anything with. It came in the car that I got for free with a bad valve ($12+gaskets). I looked at it sitting out in the drive for a long time. My ...
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|06-24-2010, 12:24 AM||#1|
bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
First off I am aware that d15b2 is about the worst engine to do anything with. It came in the car that I got for free with a bad valve ($12+gaskets). I looked at it sitting out in the drive for a long time. My background is offroad motorcycle racing and I'm 2010 M.E. grad from Rose-Hulman. I have never had a honda car before and this car is unlikely to ever be plated, at least I dont think I will ever want to pay the insurance on another/this vehicle. I'm really a BMW guy and diesel, small diesels, like the bmw335d.
To this project. I am really going for fun. I am building the setup as cheaply as i think I can.
So to what I am putting together
d15b2 stock internals/head
88-91 si intake manifold/mpfi/resister box
PM6-A09 ecu + chipping Kit
ebay ex. manifold
ebay t3/t4 turbo
Schwitzer S1 turbo
ebay (GM) 3 bar map
ebay oil filter adapter for turbo oil lines
Locally sourced hose/conduit/hose clamps/oil fittings
Turboedit/hulog/ecucontrol/freelog for tuning
currently HERE all together and started 6/4/2010. doesnt idle. will run boost for a while then goes into limp mode.
Stage 2 ...
build D16a6 for high boost
cleanup ports in head
high strength studs all around
shooting for 6:1 to 6.5:1 C.R. you can rant about this if you want.
grassroots mag. $2011 challenge maybe
slideshow let the fun begin
<div style="width:480px; text-align: center;"><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://w23.photobucket.com/pbwidget.swf?pbwurl=http%3A%2F%2Fw23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb399%2F50race%2F91+std%2F0fedb16a.pbw" height="360" width="480"><a href="http://photobucket.com/slideshows" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/slideshows/btn.gif" style="float:left;border-width: 0;" ></a><a href="http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/50race/91%20std/?action=view¤t=0fedb16a.pbw" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/slideshows/btn_viewallimages.gif" style="float:left;border-width: 0;" ></a></div>
|06-24-2010, 01:10 AM||#3|
So I got it started and idle is non existant once the engine is loaded it runs okay and will boost for a while but then goes into limp mode. Yes its got a code but thats for tomorrow. for now I glad the car is running and runs with boost. I took it down my county road about a half mile and drove back and thats about all i drove it so far. I "got on it" a little but didn't go wide open. I was pretty scary waiting for something to go wrong but it seemed okay it went to about 8psi boost. The wastegate opening about made me poop myself. As you can see its just point up going to atm for now so it a straight pipe no muffler right not when that baby opens. It ran 2.5-3psi boost just cruising up to 55mph slowly with little throttle opening. tomorrow more trouble shooting in the idle problem. then i'll try to get my datalogging working
making a head gasket ~3mm thick 8:1-8.2:1
getting that missing hose for my mpfi swap
Basic turbo setup
|06-24-2010, 01:53 PM||#6|
well the turbo has not been stressed yet so i dunno. the seals are bad in the shwitzer, but the kit is in at the shop i have to go pick it up and pay for it and i dont have much money right now so im holding off till i really get it running smooth to work on that.
As for the trouble shooting I get codes for the crank/cyl/tdc sensors and i have another thread here about not knowing the wiring properly and i still dont. almost none of my distributor colors match up like all the guides say.
CONSOLATION PRIZE. I easily have 8+ pounds of boost in limp mode. if only I could delete limp mode.
i'm using ng63_final_(2).bin with turboedit as my basemap and set the boost options fuel correction to 200% to be safe and my ign. retard to -.7 deg/lb boost.
so right now i need to get this dizzy figured out and maybe that will clean my codes up.
Can somebody get me a picture of the td02u wires going into the plug on the dizzy side. If I had that I could match things but location and not color because I have this
|06-24-2010, 03:15 PM||#8|
This is a link that is supposedly for the 87 civic conversion but it might be helpful b/c it has some cool wiring diagrams
Also I PM'd jlicrx.....might check out your thread and try to give input on the MPFI/dizzy situation
All those codes make me think soemthing is going on at the distributor
Last edited by CAFROG; 06-24-2010 at 03:26 PM.
|06-24-2010, 09:35 PM||#9|
I didn't see it, did you not buy a intercooler? Also if you haven't do a google search on your dizzy you will come up with a ton of great wiring diagrams and good luck with your build
|06-25-2010, 09:55 AM||#10|
Correct no intercooler yet. if I get to the point where its running decent I plan to put it in the subaru sti position over the intake manifold with my 2 turbos and the huge version raidiator I have, routing the intercooler piping is a pain. Oh I made that headgasket b/c the cheap one I put in blew right away. My block isnt step decked so we machined those steel rings for each cylinder to create the high pressure points.
I checked the link and I have that one and many others printed out and they have not satisfied me. I have googled the poop out of this. I have rtfm. I do have wiring diagrams of si distributors. I think i got lucky and my distributor and harness were made on the day that they ran out of the right color wires and they said what the hell we will just put whatever we got in.
here is the update I posted on honda tech
I have code 4 and 9 i think. cyl and crank sensor. 9 comes on as soon as I start her up and then I can drive down the road till i hit third gear and it just falls on its face and goes limp. I have prolly burned something out trying to figure out how this dizzy wiring goes. If anybody says its easy just match the colors like all the dpfi->mpfi swaps say I have half a mind to punch them in the face b/c the color of the wires on my 91std harness and my td02u do not match. I have found mpfi swap guides that range from just match colors to have tables of how to connect the wires that dont match and mine is different from them all. I have looked at the honda distributor wiring diagram for what the manual says is a 91 si which I believe had a td02u (not sure) and my dizzy does not have the same color wires as the honda wiring diagram.
distributor wire colors...
blue w/yellow stripe
yellow w/ green stripe
creme w/blue stripe
white w/ blue stripe
engine harness colors and my c1 and c2...
orange w/ blue stripe
white w/blue stripe
I take it that the creme color is supposed to be orange
I found my wire pairs using the ohm test for continuity and when I found the Psytronix guide I checked that they were roughly 360 ohms
distributor pairs...........connected to........harness
blue w/yellow stripe................................c2
white............................................. ......Small white
white w/blue stripe..................................white w/blue stripe
creme w/blue stripe.................................orange w/blue stripe
and by itself
yellow w/green stripe..............................Big white
its likely I burned out a sensor or something I started it first like this and had the codes then thought I might have it wrong so I swapped polarity on c1 & c2 and i dont think it mattered. I unplugged c1 and c2 completely and it still started. I swapped what i think is the crank sensor and cyl sensor wires and then it didnt start.
from a different angle because I so easily/quickly boost to 8+ lbs I thought maybe the map sensors (stock 1.8bar honda) is getting a spike over 11lbs od boost that it can read and is forcing limp mode. so I spliced in my gm 3 bar sensor, removed my sst27sf512 chip and walked into the office. I placed it in my willem burner and it wont erase. It quit working. But it did mess the chip up so that i get a solid light on the ecu now letting me not to even try to start it. I must have burn and erased 10 maps the day before. i can see it now. Burn2 this burn2 that. thats what i can see as replies. sure i will barrow your burn2.
|06-25-2010, 12:30 PM||#11|
I was thinking MAP at first but figured there was no worry with the low boost but turbo is like foreign territory for me.
What about another Distributor? Maybe the one you have is bad??
|06-26-2010, 01:25 AM||#13|
why did you use such a thick head gasket? and what did you make it out of? I dont think it was copper. you do know that might not seal correct and make you burn coolant and lose (even more) compression right?
lowering your compression that much is going to kill your spool time and kill your power curve. not to mention your torque.
Are you going to tune it?
|06-26-2010, 12:58 PM||#14|
This is my only honda ever and i hav no spare parts. I have been asking around to see if anybody local has a distributor to test with.
as for the headgasket and turbo spool. the gasket is aluminum and we annealed it to soften it up. The aluminum was scrap metal. It was a cover plate for some piece of machinery. We also added the thin steel rings on each cylinder that will result in a high clamping pressure around each cylinder, similar to having ur block step decked or oringed. The end result is the same, a higher pressure clamping area around the cylinders.
Turbo spool.... lets just say I'm spooled up and have the wastegate open up by 2000-2500 rpm because its making 8+ lbs already. To drive you a little crazy and say i'm dumb for doing it when I put together my d16 engine its going to be along the lines of 6:1-6.5:1. I dont plan to follow I want something different to do that you have to take chances and be called a fool for it.
|06-26-2010, 03:19 PM||#16|
Those are Honda Bikes (like trail bikes and/or old 4-strokes) I was raised racing Moto but they were all 2-Strokes.
In terms of the harness and distributor plug.....can you clarify what one has the wrong colors (based on all the diagrams you have investigated) ??
|06-26-2010, 07:38 PM||#17|
ya i kno those are trailbikes but we modified them for fun there are $1400 crf50 running around and $20k in some crf100s.. not mine i'm more down the the $5k range on my trail/pitbikes. I had racebikes too just not hondas. I raced KTMs 2 and 4 stroke moto and woods/enduro.
as to colors in question
fourth gen says match colors and Psytronix has some colors swapped
|06-28-2010, 12:39 PM||#19|
Holly Crap! $14,000 in a little pit bike? Well....I know its possible. That whole craze has died down up in Nor-Cal. My friends own a shop that sells Wake/Skate/Snow/Moto stuff and they were all about the pit bikes. There is an empty warehouse next to them that is only used for a fraction of the year (to store rice) so they would bring in a shit load of dirt and make a track (with a tunnel under the table top and everything). One of the owners had $9,000 in his but that's at cost and him doing all the labor. His bike was fun....power-band was way different than other pit bikes.
I started on a Yamaha 50cc then a Kawi KX60cc (this was when I actually started racing) and then up to the KX80cc (5th grade!) I still laugh at the memory of passing little kids that fell on their bike. They would be crying and throwing a temper tantrum....OMG that still makes me bust up! My dad raced too but he couldn't keep the pace to race anymore and his body was hurting (couldn't risk work....blue color man). I was always daddy's boy so I quit too......3 years later (and remembering my dad said I could keep going).....I regretted it pretty bad....especially in high school.
So in terms of the colors....what part are you getting mix info from? The Dizzy or engine harness?
"Meow, you know how fast your were going back there?"
My Old B16 Swap (Spring '09) w/CTR cams/springs.
My EH3 with a K-swap
|06-28-2010, 03:25 PM||#20|
well after todays trials I would have to say its hooked up right. If I swap any of the pairs it will not fire at the right time and will not start. So i'm stuck waiting for a burn2 and parts to swap in to test if i have bad sensors giving the codes. I think its getting close to being a really fun car. clutch will probably go next but that is one I am expecting.
|07-15-2012, 02:59 PM||#21|
Hmm just to document my build im going to add my update.
I'm all done with college for now and have a career now so I bought some parts and got this project dusted off and i made progress over the weekend.
What I did so far. I pulled the car back into the garage looked over everything. Looked at the documentation in the car and saw in the log book I had just sat some of the part in place during storage. I gave it a once over and tightened up the parts I found loose. Then it wouldnt start. Old bad gas. I loosen the rail line and pumped the bad gas out. Fired up and drove around the building a little and verified it ran the same as last time I worked on it.
Then I proceeded to swap to the new dizzy. The new dizzy has proper color wires and went on without a hitch and fixed all the error code/limp mode problems. The old dizzy is just some bastard part that has off color wires and is prolly bad anyway. with the new dizzy there was no doubt about what plugged in where.
The radiator is broken and I plan to move the the radiator to the rear window. Free up that space for an intercooler.
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