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awptickes · 09-05-2008, 05:32 AM

A common question from many new folks is "When do I shift?"

There are a few answers that newbies get, and some are wrong, some are right. This is just another method to use.

First, you'll want to get the gear ratios. Plug the gear ratios into this site:
http://www.housemanautosport.com/ratio%20calculator.htm

Then you'll need the diameter of your drive tires. Every tire is different, and wears differently, so you'll need to use your judgement. I plug it into the miata.net tire calculator:
Tire size calculator

Input the data you just collected, and submit it.

Now you'll have some numbers, use these to work by. Go to a strip and test them out. There's some experimentation, but it's pretty on-the-money.

Now, stop asking "When do I shift?".

B16RacerN2NR · 09-05-2008, 09:22 AM

IMO, this way is wrong as well. You don't come up with your shift points by looking at your speedometer...

You get your fucking car on the dyno, see where the power band is, then figure out the shift point that allows you to stay in your power band.

wikedeye · 09-05-2008, 10:10 AM

^^I agree.

YBLEGAL · 09-05-2008, 10:38 AM

The only problem I see with your method Awptickles, would be with the gear calculator. The average noob says, "I have a B16, so lets see, modify the rev limit value from 8000 to 9000. Sweet that should make me faster".

Which is why I agree with knowing your powerband.

And it's not only about the shift on the increase of rpm, but where the motor is after the shift, at the begining of the next gear as well.

Good attempt.

B · 09-08-2008, 08:40 PM

the IDEAL shift point is a shift that leaves your horsepower peak, and lands you on your torque peak.

if your car redlines at 8000, but peak hp is at 7000, on paper it doesn't make sense to wind it out.
BUT
if shifting at 8k drops you to 4k, and at 7k drops you to 3.5k, odds are that you're more in your torque band at 4k.

So, you're making more power from 7-8k then you are torque, proportionally from 3.5-4k, thus it's usually logical (on honda motors) to rev it all the way out.

so, yes, gearing (and even tire size) play into where you land... but it needs to be x-referenced against your peak hp point and peak torque point, and then averaged, and then rationalized, and .... i don't know... too much math.

just wing it out

YBLEGAL · 09-08-2008, 08:42 PM

A good driver can feel the math

B · 09-08-2008, 08:45 PM

no, he probably can't. that's ass-dyno territory

TurboMirage · 09-08-2008, 08:56 PM

i shift when i feel like it, gosh!

phyregod · 09-08-2008, 10:00 PM

No shit. Drive the car. You'll just know when to shift.

E_SolSi · 09-09-2008, 04:28 PM

hit the rev limiter count to 10 then shift

newb · 09-09-2008, 04:38 PM

^ Fuckin bingo! Thats it!

awptickes · 09-10-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_SolSi

hit the rev limiter count to 10 then shift

lol.

Apocalypto · 09-10-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YBLEGAL

A good driver can feel the math

Exactly.

celmore · 09-10-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_SolSi

hit the rev limiter count to 10 then shift

ok i took this advice..it seemed to work great! my car is 20 times faster shifting like that i dont know why i didn't do it sooner! Does that work for all gears? I tried it on launch as well!! Other than some awful wheel hop it took off like a rocket!

wikedeye · 09-10-2008, 08:39 AM

^^^I think he was joking.

George777 · 09-10-2008, 08:42 AM

Neutral drops give you better takoffs...

E_SolSi · 09-10-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celmore

ok i took this advice..it seemed to work great! my car is 20 times faster shifting like that i dont know why i didn't do it sooner! Does that work for all gears? I tried it on launch as well!! Other than some awful wheel hop it took off like a rocket!

yes this works for all the gears

for launch just hold the clutch and gas pedal to the floor when it hits the rev limiter count to 10 and dump the clutch, this will get you your best possible launch (this is the trick the magazines use to get their test results)
if you find you are getting a lot of wheel spin when launching like this, you need to warm up the tires more... for a FWD car the best way to do this is to put it in reverse, cut the wheel all the way to the right or left, stomp on the throttle using the same rev limiter 10 count that you want to use for the launch, then dump the clutch and count 10 full revolutions of the car, when finished turn the wheel the other way and repeat the process... after this your tires will be properly warmed up and you should get a sweet launch
if you are still spinning a lot on the launch you may need a wider and softer tire

George777 · 09-10-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_SolSi

yes this works for all the gears

for launch just hold the clutch and gas pedal to the floor when it hits the rev limiter count to 10 and dump the clutch, this will get you your best possible launch (this is the trick the magazines use to get their test results)
if you find you are getting a lot of wheel spin when launching like this, you need to warm up the tires more... for a FWD car the best way to do this is to put it in reverse, cut the wheel all the way to the right or left, stomp on the throttle using the same rev limiter 10 count that you want to use for the launch, then dump the clutch and count 10 full revolutions of the car, when finished turn the wheel the other way and repeat the process... after this your tires will be properly warmed up and you should get a sweet launch
if you are still spinning a lot on the launch you may need a wider and softer tire

Good advice, E! I'm gunna try it. I just hope nobody else finds out about this, cuz then everyone will be doing it and I won't have the advantage anymore.

91accordwithwork · 09-10-2008, 04:10 PM

hah lol

caboose · 09-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_SolSi

if you find you are getting a lot of wheel spin when launching like this, you need to warm up the tires more

I disagree. Lots of tire spin means that you are doing it right

If someone wanted to know any of this information, why not just look at your speed as you shift?

YBLEGAL · 09-10-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caboose

I disagree. Lots of tire spin means that you are doing it right
 
 
If someone wanted to know any of this information, why not just look at your speed as you shift?

Because then more people would be putting it in the ditch...

caboose · 09-10-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YBLEGAL

Because then more people would be putting it in the ditch...

Good, they deserve to be there. Get some of these idiots of the roads.

celmore · 09-11-2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_SolSi

yes this works for all the gears

for launch just hold the clutch and gas pedal to the floor when it hits the rev limiter count to 10 and dump the clutch, this will get you your best possible launch (this is the trick the magazines use to get their test results)
if you find you are getting a lot of wheel spin when launching like this, you need to warm up the tires more... for a FWD car the best way to do this is to put it in reverse, cut the wheel all the way to the right or left, stomp on the throttle using the same rev limiter 10 count that you want to use for the launch, then dump the clutch and count 10 full revolutions of the car, when finished turn the wheel the other way and repeat the process... after this your tires will be properly warmed up and you should get a sweet launch
if you are still spinning a lot on the launch you may need a wider and softer tire

WOW took this advice and it worked to perfection! I thought it felt like a rocket the first time i tried it! Only this time I did it for a street race in the middle of rush hour traffic for pink slips! Totally won an EVO VIII that guy had no idea what he was facing!

K2e2vin · 09-11-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B16RacerN2NR

IMO, this way is wrong as well. You don't come up with your shift points by looking at your speedometer...

You get your fucking car on the dyno, see where the power band is, then figure out the shift point that allows you to stay in your power band.

E_SolSi · 09-11-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celmore

WOW took this advice and it worked to perfection! I thought it felt like a rocket the first time i tried it! Only this time I did it for a street race in the middle of rush hour traffic for pink slips! Totally won an EVO VIII that guy had no idea what he was facing!

awesome

happy to help

09-05-2008, 05:32 AM	#1
awptickes Reverend Awptickes Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bel Air, MD Age: 21 Posts: 3,953 iTrader: 6 / 100% Ride: 1999 Civic EJ9, 2009 Fit GE8, 2006 Suzuki SV650s Rep Power: 189	When to shift A common question from many new folks is "When do I shift?" There are a few answers that newbies get, and some are wrong, some are right. This is just another method to use. First, you'll want to get the gear ratios. Plug the gear ratios into this site: http://www.housemanautosport.com/ratio%20calculator.htm Then you'll need the diameter of your drive tires. Every tire is different, and wears differently, so you'll need to use your judgement. I plug it into the miata.net tire calculator: Tire size calculator Input the data you just collected, and submit it. Now you'll have some numbers, use these to work by. Go to a strip and test them out. There's some experimentation, but it's pretty on-the-money. Now, stop asking "When do I shift?". Attached Thumbnails __________________ ☻/ DIY/Howto HID Projector retrofit /▌ / \

09-05-2008, 09:22 AM	#2
B16RacerN2NR I'll be back... Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga - UTI Age: 26 Posts: 5,079 iTrader: 1 / 100% Ride: 06 Mazda 5, 91 Civic DX Rep Power: 156	IMO, this way is wrong as well. You don't come up with your shift points by looking at your speedometer... You get your fucking car on the dyno, see where the power band is, then figure out the shift point that allows you to stay in your power band. __________________ Real Eyes Realize Real Lies

09-05-2008, 10:38 AM	#4
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	The only problem I see with your method Awptickles, would be with the gear calculator. The average noob says, "I have a B16, so lets see, modify the rev limit value from 8000 to 9000. Sweet that should make me faster". Which is why I agree with knowing your powerband. And it's not only about the shift on the increase of rpm, but where the motor is after the shift, at the begining of the next gear as well. Good attempt. __________________ YBLEGAL.NET → Profile • Projects • Parts For Sale → Steel Braided Brake Lines • Front Camber Kit (Price Drop) • Manual Brake Pedal

09-08-2008, 08:42 PM	#6
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	A good driver can feel the math __________________ YBLEGAL.NET → Profile • Projects • Parts For Sale → Steel Braided Brake Lines • Front Camber Kit (Price Drop) • Manual Brake Pedal

09-08-2008, 08:56 PM	#8
TurboMirage Running on two cylinders Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southbridge, MA Age: 25 Posts: 18,155 iTrader: 1 / 100% Ride: 2000 Mitsubishi Lancer RPW E5 Coupe Rep Power: 338	i shift when i feel like it, gosh! __________________ Home of the RPW built 2000 Lancer CC Coupe. See what is done to the little Evo5. "If you don't like what I've done with my car, I will gladly refund all the money you put into it."


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09-08-2008, 08:40 PM	#5
B Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: across the way Age: 29 Posts: 8,020 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 318ti, dakota, genesis 2.0t Rep Power: 403	the IDEAL shift point is a shift that leaves your horsepower peak, and lands you on your torque peak. if your car redlines at 8000, but peak hp is at 7000, on paper it doesn't make sense to wind it out. BUT if shifting at 8k drops you to 4k, and at 7k drops you to 3.5k, odds are that you're more in your torque band at 4k. So, you're making more power from 7-8k then you are torque, proportionally from 3.5-4k, thus it's usually logical (on honda motors) to rev it all the way out. so, yes, gearing (and even tire size) play into where you land... but it needs to be x-referenced against your peak hp point and peak torque point, and then averaged, and then rationalized, and .... i don't know... too much math. just wing it out

09-08-2008, 08:45 PM	#7
B Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: across the way Age: 29 Posts: 8,020 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 318ti, dakota, genesis 2.0t Rep Power: 403	no, he probably can't. that's ass-dyno territory

09-10-2008, 04:10 PM	#19
91accordwithwork kid that everyone loves! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wauwatosa WI Age: 15 Posts: 555 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 91 accrod DX with a few extras : ) Rep Power: 0	hah lol __________________ heres my mod. list -painted valve cover -new headers -new high flow obx resonator -new carbon fiber exaust tip -new p.s pump -new radiator -new belt -new injen ram intake -new strut bar -new deck (installed myself) -new speakers -not bad for learning as i went and not having shit for help besides u great guys i think thats around all i did, tok a few months but im happy with it! and after all that theres a small puddle of oil under my intake on my engine..... the fun never ends!

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When to shift