Ford Focus Hit by New Quality Glitch

[Celerity]

Point counterpoint.


I, Sir, am insulted. You should be too. When a Blackhawk crashes in Turkey, does ANYONE make mention of your marriage ? This sounds like insane drivel.

I am an American worker. Mondays are just as important to me as Fridays as they are Saturdays and all days in between. Since all of my networks, just about, are started up on Mondays, Should we expect the worst?

Your sister is a Quality Inspector for GM. Isn't it her direct job to stop flaws and defects from leaving the plant? Perhaps it's fair of me to assume that she had been housed by her drunk, blue collar husband that weekend. Or maybe I could go alittle farther and make mentions of menstruation and talking on the phone instead of reviewing her work.

But I won't. And I won't do it not only because it's not my style, But it's plain wrong. IT's non-sensical argument, close minded and trite in all senses. It's not how I argue, nor is it reasonable for anyone to assume this. You or your sister.


Dare I say that in Japanese Culture, should they make a mistake and allow a car out of the factory flawed, that they will instantly lose their jobs, Be replaced by one of the 100 other people in line waiting for their job? No. Is it fair of me to point towards the fact that Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world? No. How about when we start talking about "Honor" and "Pride" we can go on about the corporate libel and black-listing that is prevelant.. No.. Rampant in Japan ?


I now step off of my soapbox. But I do so not in insult to your favorite country, nor in gest at our friendship. I say all of this with the kind respect that I intend towards you - Clayton as my best friend and co-hort. I also feel it's necessary - In this public forum to stand up and defend what I believe is right.

See ya tomorrow, dude.

-> Steve

 

[TurboMirage]

 

[Airjockie]

speaking of which you do not know......

highest suicide rate?...where did that come from...thats the case of the bubble economy falling thru a few years ago, and the people that were jumping were mostly CEO's.....


My sister was talking to me on the phone from her house...not work...and she is single...been devorced twice....but constantly gets stabbed in the back by her co-workers...


more to write..BRB....

 

[Celerity]

Bring it on, baby I love going toe-to-toe with people on stuff like this.

But you gotta get this in your head, argument to me is the highest form of flattery.


Just ask Martine.

-> Steve

 

[BigJ]

This is going to be good.

 

[TurboMirage]

Originally posted by Celerity@Nov 25 2003, 12:42 AM
Bring it on, baby I love going toe-to-toe with people on stuff like this.

But you gotta get this in your head, argument to me is the highest form of flattery.


Just ask Martine.

-> Steve

so are you in love with clayton?

 

[Airjockie]

why get in a heated argument......

I worked in Japan...and I worked in America.....


And from what I see still stands....

it's hard for you to back up your opinions...if you have not been there.


the old saying I go by is...."an idea without data is only an opinion"

 

[Celerity]

the old saying I go by is...."an idea without data is only an opinion"

Ok, Get your dancing shoes.....

seen what corners the workers take to save time, and get the job done...and the problems that they face with the unions, everyday life, domestic fueds, bar time, attitudes while at work, and the shit they have to put up with

This is fact eh ? Sounds like opinion to me.

Once you lived in Japan.....it is completely different,

Weren't you telling me of a practice wherein Japanese companies legally paid non-japanese workers less? The Aspen Institute for Humanites has a report on this:

The key difference seems to be that Americans are more individually motivated, while East Asians are more group-motivated. Americans and Canadians typically have used the philosophy that if you work hard you can reap the benefits of your labor and enjoy personal success. East Asians have instead historically been taught to strive for the success and harmony of their group rather than individual glory. An example of how this difference in attitude carries over to work might be the case of an employee who had finished all his work for the day by about 5pm. An American would generally head home satisfied, but an East Asian probably would stay until everyone was ready to leave and the manager had given permission to go. This permission might not come until the work group had "bonded" by drinking until midnight at a nearby bar.

preoccupied with telling the other workers their kill stories at the local bar, and they are also grumpy for having to show up to work, or maybe the wife burned them out on the week-end.

Again. This is hear-say.

The Japanese worker has better control over their lives,

Socialist country. Fact, not opinion.

They have strictor measures for quality than the American company's have, and they have pride in their work....

Two things. The Germans have FAR more strict quality measures than both the Americans and the Japanese. Yet how many Audis have you seen with bad electricals? How about ANY german car facing an Airconditioning problem? How about the simply rancid Lucas contracts? Secondly, "They have pride in their work" is an opinion.

I am not going to look up any statisics.....

But I have to? Ok.. I can do that. Lets raise the bar.

-> Steve

 

[Celerity]

Originally posted by liquid00meth@Nov 22 2003, 05:33 PM
actually the focus SVT has pretty sick handling stock.

The only car to EVER crash in CART (Connecticut Autocross and Rally Team) was a Ford Focus that rolled during an autocross.

-> Steve

If you're interested, it had aftermarket tires and about 150 miles on it.

 

[Airjockie]

I work in a factory environment...I even seen what corners people make to get the job done...and sometimes they are the bad kinda a corners to make....missing rivits, bolts not torqued, parts missing...or never installed, FOD....which is a whole new story...and simple stuff that would have been prevented if the job was done correctly....

And these items are on aircraft.....by trained professionals....that makes the money, has the benifits, and don't have to worry about union uprisings all the time...

So to put that into perspective, along with what my sister also tells me from the automotive side of manufacturing.....it gets pretty scarey...

As for the German car's....at least half of them are made in Mexico...and yes, they also have their problems...

The old saying goes....."you get what you pay for".........

the Expencive M3 is a lot of money, but a nice car, that is built better than the VW gulfs.......price is the issue.....and the location its built at..also coinsides with the pride factor.


This debate can go back and forth for many years...and other will always have something to say.....

one last point.....have you ever heard of a Japanese worker going postal in the plant.....that's only in America baby!!!

 

[Celerity]

that's only (reported) in America.


How does the M3's build location affect it's pride factor ? I know what you're getting at - Merely because the car is more Elite, is it's quality up. This is a flaw that I find everywhere.


You're going to tell me that no one, but American Workers - You excluded - Miss a rivet or bolt ?

You may be able to pull things like this over the eyes of others - But when you conject that you don't "Cut corners"... You're talking to me. ME.


The Mirror has two faces.

-> Steve

Also, I would like some proof, or even evidence that Germany farms it's labor out to Mexico. The only example is the Beetle. Which outside of it's one dramatic recall, hasn't been too bad (even though I don't like them)

Sikorsky Employees may take slack flip-chapeau attitudes towards their work - It's hard to keep people interested when they get laid off every 25 days.

 

[Airjockie]

You're going to tell me that no one, but American Workers - You excluded - Miss a rivet or bolt ?

everyone makes mistakes...just some make more mistakes than others.. <_<

You may be able to pull things like this over the eyes of others - But when you conject that you don't "Cut corners"... You're talking to me. ME.


The Mirror has two faces.

I only cut corners when I work on YOUR car...hehe...

At work, when I build, repair, fix, install something...it gets inspected, and varified that it is good...more than one persons lives are at stake if I mess up....cars can pull over on the side of the road if they have problems....aircraft can't.

Also, I would like some proof, or even evidence that Germany farms it's labor out to Mexico. The only example is the Beetle. Which outside of it's one dramatic recall, hasn't been too bad (even though I don't like them)

My old VW gulf had "Hencho en Mexico" on the car....

proof.....hmmm...wadayaknow....Mercedes being built in China?