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Got a lude yesterday. H22 swap doesnt want to start when its cold??

Discussion in 'Prelude' started by Depriesticles, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    Hey all.

    I just traded my 96 eclipse for a 93 prelude with a h22a1 crate motor in it. When I met up with the guy, the car started and ran great. I test drove it, and everything felt awesome. Great response, no sputtering, didnt seem like anything was wrong with it. I got up this morning though and went to go start the car, and it didnt hardly want to start. It would crank and crank and finally start, but it would idle rough and die. I would start it again, and it started quicker, but it died when I hit the gas. It did this 4 or 5 times and I figured out if I feathered the gas pedal I could get it to climb rpms. After holding it at about 2000-2500 rpms for 15-30 seconds, it would respond better and start up and idle fine. When it was completely warm, it seemed like nothing was wrong.

    I did some running around during the day, and when I got home I tried starting it again, and it did the same thing. It only doesnt want to start when its cold, and when I hit the gas when I first start it, it just dies. The warmer it gets, the better it responds and doesnt die, and at full temp, nothing is wrong.

    I talked to my father in law who is a mechanic, and he said it seems like a temp sensor isnt working and its telling the ecu that its alot warmer than it actually is when its cold and not giving it enough gas.

    I found out that the check engine bulb is un-plugged too. This jack knob took out the bulb so I couldnt see that something was wrong with the car. Can you guys give me some other input so I can try to get this worked out. Since tomorrow is x-mas, I cant take it to schmucks to see if/what code(s) its throwing since they are closed, but ill let you know what I find out when I can get it read.

    What do you guys think? Sounds like a temp sensor? Would the tps or o2 sensor cause this? I need help!
     
  2. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    Take it back to him. There are lemon laws.
     
  3. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    You have an OBD1 car and I am guessing its an OBD1 ECU of some sort in there.....but you need to look at the throttle body. On the bottom of the TB, there should be a Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV). No electrical connection but a housing that is bolted to the bottom of the TB with two coolant lines running to it. It controls the regulates the idle speed when the motor is COLD. The Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) controls and regulates the idle when the car is to running temp (warm)

    if you have an OBD2 TB....it will not have a FITV (b/c OBD2 ECU's control idle with a cold motor) which could be the problem with idle at cold motor temps

    Google for pics of the FITV if you are not sure what to look for.

    And the unplugged CEL bulb? Shady/half ass way to run a car. You need to get the numbers off the ECU and see what it has......I am curious.
     
  4. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    I looked up the washington state lemon laws, and private party transactions are not covered by this law. It goes by a "buyers beware" rule.
     
  5. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    Hmmm....I will look into the FITV tomorrow after x-mas breakfast. I have 2 other h22 intake manifolds with TBs on them, so I might be able to try putting a valve off one of those 2 into it and see if it fixes the problem. I am pretty sure it is all obd1 running on a p13 ecu, but im not certain. I cant be certain of anything on this car now that I see this dude scammed me. I also have an extra p13 too.

    That seems like a likely situation. Thanks for the help. Im looking forward to checking/fixing/replacing that valve and see if it works. I am more looking forward to see what codes its throwing. Who knows how many problems this car has. Shitty situation...trading a perfectly running car for a car with problems...no good.
     
  6. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    If you have issues, there is a good shop in Tacoma called "speedfactory" and one in Kent called "intec" both are pretty solid with imports and swaps.
     
  7. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    Ok cool. If I cant get it figured out then I will take it to one of those shops. I have heard of speedfactory before, and from what I hear, they are pretty reputable. I would like to fix it myself so I dont have to spend a bunch on cash, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to have a good running car.
     
  8. hondafreak513

    hondafreak513 New Member

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    Yeah check the FITV, coolant temp sensor, and maybe the IATV too..
     
  9. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    I went out there this morning and saw that there were a couple vacuum lines that are blocked off in places and some things that just seem out of sorts. Im going fix the vacuum problem and see what that does for me. The throttle cable was too tight and it was idling really high, so I adjusted that. I also saw that the A/C lines are cut and I dont have any A/C...which isnt a big problem. Its just nice to have during the summer.

    My biggest discovery though is that this is a JDM motor!! W00T! I found some paperwork in the car for the crate motor and re-checked the engine. Its not an h22a1 like I thought...its an h22a! W00T!
     
  10. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    What is the trim of the prelude? S, Si, VTEC??

    Hope you can get this fixed....sounds like a rat's nest. Makes me mad! I hate half-ass'd work done on cars. If it was me.....I would do like you and get the vacuum lines sorted out (one is most likely from the evap purge to the charcoal canister)....plus I'd put in a virgin ECU and get the CEL hooked back up. Worst case scenario.....you may need to purchase a used USDM engine harness (preferably a VTEC or Si Prelude for VTEC wiring) and USDM ECU (but you would need an Evap Purge Solenoid b/c JDM don't have one)

    Good luck on the vacuum lines. I hope your engine harness wasn't done by a monkey when they swapped the JDM motor in there.
     
  11. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    I believe it is an S. The title says SS...so im thinking its an S.

    The car itself it really straight...but the guys who did the motor were total idiots. Im going to take some pics of what I am finding and post them for you guys when I can. The breaks on it dont work for nothing. I asked the guy about it, and he said he bought a new master cylinder...but i found out he didnt bench bleed it before he put it on the car. He just hooked it up straight out of the box. In other words...all of the air that was in the piston cylinder got pushed into my break lines when he pumped them up. On top of that...the break line that goes into the master cylinder has a brass adapter, and there shouldnt have to be one. The brass is so weak that when you try to tighten the nut it just strips the fitting out. I have tried 3 of the adapters now. I am going to go buy some stuff to splice break lines tomorrow, and just cut this fitting off, splice a new line onto it with a proper fitting, and re-flange it out. So it will be a proper one on that will just hook straight up to the master cylinder. As for now though...I dont have a car. Until I get these breaks done, I cant drive it to check the CEL, get emissions done, or to work. This also means I cant transfer the title yet because my area requires me to get emissions done first. This sucks.
     
  12. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    If its an S....i believe that means it didn't come with a VTEC wired to the ECU.....I think it was an SOHC engine as well. Try to learn more about prelude wiring and just check to see what was modified, see if it was connected correctly and then you'll be ready to check the engine codes.
     
  13. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    Well I just got in from fixing my breaks. I spliced a new break line together and made myself a little adapter. After bleeding them all out for about an hour, I think I finally got most all the air out of the lines and now I HAVE BREAKS AGAIN!! W00T!

    I was looking around in the engine compartment and just checking things out...and I found a coolant temp sensor that doenst have a plug to plug it in. After some research, I found out its the thermosensor (tw sensor). There isnt even a plug anywhere on the harness to plug into it. I think this is where my problem is. There is one more temp sensor running to the ecu, but its not getting the right temp reading since one sensor is not sending any info. My buddy has a few extra wiring harnesses from a couple different hondas, and he is going to bring them over tomorrow and we are going to see if there is a plug on one of those harnesses that will fit this tw sensor, and I am going to have to run my own wires to the ecu. Hopefully this fixes my cold starting problem.
     
  14. hondafreak513

    hondafreak513 New Member

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    yes that is your problem right there... and the single wire sensor is for the temp gauge..
     
  15. HoloWeb

    HoloWeb New Member

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    Hey dude!

    Im just about to undertake a h22a1 swap for my f22a1, since it bit the dust basicly. You said u had another p13 ecu tho!

    any chance i can snatch that off you?

    And let me know some of the ways you fixed your issues, some pictures would be a great bit of help being my first swap. i dont want to end up doing a half arsed job like they did =p
     
  16. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    BAH!!! MORE PROBLEMS!!!

    So one of the things that really bugged me about this car was the amp wiring. This d-bag ran the power wite from the battery, next to the fender, and down the passenger door. Its not that big of a deal, but it just bugs the crap out of me. While I was waiting for my buddy to show up with an extra harness to fix my ECT sensor, I decided to rip out this hack job wiring. While I was running the rca's back through the ecu cage, I realized the ecu said P14!!!!!! I am not even getting VTEC because this jack knob didnt put in the right ecu!

    I ran in the house and got the p13 I had in there, and plugged it in. When I started it, the car was idleing really low and sputtery and was hesitating when I tried to rev it. I dont know if not having the ECT sensor hooked up will cause this, but I am going to wire that in tonight so I guess I will find out. While I was probing wires and trying to figure out if everything was hooked up properly, I did find one good thing. He did wire the vtec solenoid in right. But I also found out why my blower motor stays on even when I turn the car off...he hard wired it to the switch. Im going to be fixing all this wiring tonight.


    Sorry SoloWeb, Im going to need my p13 now that I found this out. I totally would have sold it to you if this wasnt the case.

    Sorry to everyone else too, I totally forgot to take pics of everything I have been doing. I just get wrapped up in fixing the problem and just keep working away. I will try to remember to take pics from now on.
     
  17. HoloWeb

    HoloWeb New Member

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    no worries dude! im sure ill find one sooner or later. thanks tho for the reply.

    good luck on figuring out the wires! im going to be doing the same thing to my 92 lude some time this winter, so the more info that you can put up the easier it will be for me to mod my harness for the internal dizzy (distributor), sensors, selinoid etc. altho i think i understand in theory. its always nice to have some kind of visual aid. since i had a verry hard time finding any with photos.

    thanks!
    greg
     
  18. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    Well I got the ECT sensor wired in last night, but I was running late this morning, and since everything was frozen I decided to take my 2010 civic today. My lude doesnt have A/C, so it would take forever to defrost. From what I felt yesterday though, it seemed like it started better, but still when I hit the gas it would almost die until it warmed up. I dont know what to do next.

    I took a ton of pics of my work last night, and I will post them when I get off work today. I soldered the ECT sensor pigtail on, and went through the car and took off all the crimps and put on solder and heat shrink in its place. I also found out why the blower motor was hard wired in....the fuze was blown and the cheap bastard didnt even want to buy a fuze for it. I hooked the wires back up properly, and I will be going to buy a fuze for it tonight.

    I did a bunch of research last night, and I think I found out why my car runs so poorly with the p13 in it. I didnt know that the injectors between the h22 and h23 are different. The h23 injectors are 240cc, and h22 are 345cc. This would explain why the car runs fine with a p14 and runs like ass with a p13. The p13 thinks that the injectors are putting 345 cc's of fuel into the motor, but its putting alot less than that, thus making the car bog down because of the lack of fuel. I found on auction on ebay for a used h22 fuel rail with the injectors and regulator already on it. I will be bidding on that, and hopefully when I put them in, the p13 will work correctly. Although, I am only speculating that the injectors that are in it now are h23 injectors. *crossing fingers that they are and this will fix it*
     
  19. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    I say you investigate the distributor and its wiring....just my $0.02
     
  20. Depriesticles

    Depriesticles Kids these days...

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    I can see how a dizzy would cause this, but why would it be different between the p13 and p14? The car runs great with the p14 so the dizzy is working fine for it. Why would it cause problems with the p13?
     
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