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Healthcare bill upheld

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by Briansol, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    So, now 198 million americans have to pay for 360 million american's health care instead of 198 million.

    Please, do tell how this will cost less?

    I expect to see a 30% rise in healthcare costs in 2014.


    The fine, is up to 1% of your salary.

    Doing some math, I currently pay about 500 more a year than the fine would cost me to not have health care, yet, i would still retain government coverage if i got sick.

    So, why should I opt-in to pay for my own at work when it's cheaper not to?


    Our country is falling apart. Led by idiots. Approved by fucktards.

    Progressives only see the narrow picture that helps people with pre-existing conditons and so forth obtain care.

    There's a happy medium somewhere.

    I think it lies in taxing mcdonalds, corn syrup, and other shit foods a 75% "you'll probably be a leech on society later" tax, which would 100% fund the healthcare system, and at the same time, encourage people to eat better foods.

    The Today show had some 13 year old 'hero' on this morning while i was getting ready for work about how he saved his dad after he collapsed by performing CPR. And then they showed the picture. All clinically obese. i wonder why he dropped dead?

    It's a sad place to be right now, in America.

    Meanwhile, Spain and Italy are on the verge of collapse, Greece is still in limbo, the middle east in a warzone, still....

    When are they opening up the space station or mars for human colonization?
     
  2. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Here is the key :

    The language "Tax" allows a 51% yes/no vote to approve / disapprove. The Senate has this in the GOP that has "sworn" to fight it.

    Chances are, they won't. RINOs and all.

    So here a more likely outcome : The Tax is included in everyone's taxes. Those who opt out aren't "fined", those who opt in are given a tax refund.

    This means Card Check. I'll find out more tomorrow when I infiltrate the unions.
     
  3. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    How long did they tell use this was not a tax? And then the Supreme Court offers up the Tax clause as a justification for this garbage? Slow clap for legislating from the bench.
     
  4. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Just another excuse to tax those with jobs to pay for those that won't work.
     
  5. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    Old, fat, and sick people are really vehemently in favor of making young, fit, healthy people pay for their medical care. Oh democracy, you rascal, you.
     
  6. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    The Supreme court was submitted the law to decide it's constitutionality. The bill, as presented, wasn't constitutional. The court said that the only way it could be constitutional was to change the language to a tax, and then have Congress vote on it. All tax increases must come from bills originating in the Congress.

    What SCOTUS did here, and why the right is panicking, is told us that if it were to be introduced to law that included a tax that somehow paid for it, it would be constitutional. That's not true. Other clauses of the constitution make it clearly illegal to force a US Citizen to buy a product.

    We are all "forced" to pay for things. Like road work. That comes from taxes. But it's a service, not a tax. When my town hall decided to renovate, it was done with tax money (We paid for a service to be rendered). The only way to make this legal is to initiate the "Single Payer System", which is a fancy way of saying government run clinics, with government employed (Or contracted, like in much of our road work) doctors and staff.

    And that is how the rest of the world does it. The sideline danger here, and what the ultra-right is concerned with (Myself included) is that Congress and the Executive haven't behaved within the guidelines for decades. And Obama has a tendency and demonstrated desire to push issues through executive order.

    My personal concern is that with such a broken system as this one (Other systems analysts will know what I'm talking about here.. The system is clearly broken) is that enforcement will begin, taxation will occur, and services will be rendered totally out of order.

    The Financial pro will be concerned over a simple factor : We can't afford this law. There isn't enough money to do it. We don't make enough. As if the family has decided to buy a Bentley, but doesn't have enough money to buy a bicycle. We can't even borrow this money to do it anymore. We're broke. Whether we want this system or not, there simply isn't enough money to even bother with this idea.

    Furthermore, When Nancy Pelosi bought a private plane to travel, on her own itinerary, with tax payer money - She broke a rule there too. Tax dollars went into buying a private asset. She made the point that the private jet (Which is a jumbo jet, for shit's sake) was necessary to fulfill her role in congress. The truth is, we pay for commercial airline tickets for these people all the time. She exploited a broken system where our voices just went ignored.

    Finally, as far as spending tax dollars in places that we never wanted to spend them - Tax dollars buy products all the time. We subsidize certain things, and have been for years. We subsidize Farming, for instance. Here we share the cost of each produced vegetable and slice of meat. And we think that it saves us money because we don't pay $5 for an onion at the store. Instead, we pay $2 for an onion, and then get billed the $3 more in our collective taxes. (Well, on paper anyway. The truth is that no one has been paying for this food, and the money is just printed garbage)
     
  7. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    OH yes, and finally - the law itself. There are several thousands of pages in this law. No one has read it. Not even the Supreme Court. They were given cliff's notes on it, and the ruling they handed down didn't even really depend on reading it.

    Voting lawmakers didn't read it, and the people haven't read it. As a civilian, I gave up on like.. page 21.

    There are LOTS of things in this document that are nefarious. I was able to wrap my head around some of the stuff that replaces HIPAA, that's about it.
     
  8. awptickes

    awptickes unimpressed by you VIP

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    One of these days I'll read it, but by the time I get around to reading it, I'll have to read the defense appropriations act for 2013. And the cycle will start again "I really need to read that," will turn into "I really should have read that.
     
  9. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    i hate to say it but in reality how is this any different from how its been since the implementation of various social programs, when people get sick someone is always left paying the tab, nothing in life is free
    that's what our gov't really needs to realize, nothing is free
     
  10. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    I would argue the American people need to understand nothing is free. The politicians just pit us against each other. Healthcare is broken as is education.I think we can all agree on that but it gets so twisted out of shape all scream about the stupid bits of the bill while the back door mountains of nefarious stuff. When politicians tell us we have to pass a bill to learn what's in it something is terribly wrong. And both sides are equally guilty of this particular practice. It's up to all of us to hold these people accountable but we don't because they throw a few scraps that we are keen for and it pacifies the "base" and its back to business as usual.
     
  11. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  12. |Chaz|

    |Chaz| Well-Known Member VIP

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    I fucking hate the whole food stamps thing. Especially since there have been so many times that I have been in line behind someone that LOOKS like they have substantial amount of money and then they whip out their EBT card to pay for something stupid like chips and a soda. Why do we pay for people to have garbage food? Makes no sense to me. I could see providing them with a small amount of money that is only good for "natural" food. Meats, grains, vegtables, fruits, etc. Nothing processed should allowed to be purchased with EBT.
     
  13. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    Restrictions wouldn't matter. Small mom and pop shops and bodegas don't itemize purchases and don't care what you buy with it.

    Food Stamp Beer Reviews | VICE
     
  14. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Food Stamps are a free account with a closed-loop input / output deposit system, owned by J.P. Morgan.

    Who, oddly enough, just took over my house, then within 3 weeks (Enough for court papers) sold it to the FedGov.

    I know more of how it happened, but I'm not shitting on this thread too.
     
  15. 99sidude

    99sidude Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Even without the health care bill, taxpayers are paying for the care of uninsured. What happens when a patient comes to the emergency room and can't pay a bill? The hospital still gives them full treatment, and writes it off as a loss when they pay taxes. With this bill, the goal is to give these people access to preventative care, which in turn, theoretically lowers costs down the road.

    In a perfect world, that is...

    I agree in part with what they are trying to do. However, government healthcare should be bare bones and basic. There should be no incentive to being on gov. health care aside from basic survival.

    I feel the same way about food stamps. Food stamps are a necessary thing - a survival tool, not a luxury. My belief is that food stamps should only be able to purchase water, fruit and veggies, cheap cuts of meat, and bread. The essentials. Prepackaged meals, pop, and processed foods should not be covered.
     
  16. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    Ya lets give people who should die a survival tool. That will help the overpopulation problem.
     
  17. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

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    in the old days, if you couldnt contribute to society, you would be dead.

    don't really understand what was wrong with that :shrug:
     
  18. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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  19. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    I think I'm actually going to do some research and experiment with just how easy it is to get EBT and welfare. Document my findings and show how the system is grossly flawed. But hell, the powers that be would probably just throw me in jail for my actions and not look into the "why" I did what I did.
     
  20. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    I had to go for them a few years ago. I was turned away - the system listed me as having 16 jobs.

    I worked as a temp, and when an assignment is over as a temp, they keep you on record so they don't need to fill out tax papers again. I had to get a letter from each employer stating that I am not actually employed. 8 of them were out of business.

    So I just focused and doubled-down on the work I was doing. I'm still "Unemployed". That was about 2009 / 2010.
     
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