Jobless rate up again....

[Domeskilla]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Jul 11 2003, 12:06 AM
enter clinton, a D. Other than getting heady-momo from a couple interns, i think he was the 2nd best president of this century behind FDR. fuck JFK, what did he do? nothing but look good and almost get us blown up by cuba and russia. worst president ever. anyway, back to clinton- he cut so much spending, none of which we seemed to notice, and we pulled out of our whole ever so slightly. More over, the economy was good. no one was getting laid off around here like it is now.

He also turned his cheek on Iraq and Iran, turned his cheek on UBL and other terrorist networks. Also never persued the 93 or 94 WTC bombings.

Yes, we weren't in recession then, but look at what he did to keep us from it. Now 9-11 happened, we were a bad economy then, but we could have certainly got out of it a lot easier then we can now. Now we are in a hole.

You didnt meantion watergate.. since i dont know anything about it, i'll just let someone who does, fill in info on what present it was, how it affected us, etc.

 

[halcyon985]

Clinton sucked balls on foreign policy. Couldn't make up his mind about what he wanted to do, besides committing the terrorist act of blowing up a countries only pharmacutical(Sp?) plant and also imposing sanctions on them so they couldn't import drugs. But what he did at home was good... and considering that every president since god knows when has been committing horrific terrorist acts around the world... I suppose we can't complain about Clinton. It's better then having a president that directly lies to us to get us to go to war.

At any rate, I should stop befor this becomes the Florida Teen thread....

 

[posol]

unfortunately his foreign policy was weak and he allowed bin laden to function freely in afghanistan, allowed the north koreans to build their nuclear arsenal..and didn't do much in securing our borders...

Granted- but without a direct threat, why be harsh? That's like saying we allowed North Vietnam to build up guns and start a "conflict" in the late 60s

all of these factors indirectly led to 9-11 which turned out to be a major intelligence failure. and...while i don't care for george bush i do feel he is doing the best he can with what he has faced given the events that have taken place while he has been in office.

9/11, even if it was stoppable, was really not an economic issue. It killed a couple hundred (ish.. i forget) and tore down two buildings.

I went to the city and saw the rubble first hand. touching, yes. but at the same time, the fact that 2 airplanes hitting a building is not a very good fucking reason for a complete and abrupt recession.

and, like i told you over IM, the economy was already in decline when the events of 9-11 took place...and it just made things worse.

we were in this because GWB had been in office for a year. we were fine when clinton left.....

george w bush will get oil flowing in iraq, and the contracts will go to american companies which will create jobs for americans. i see only good things in the future for this country, and the jobless rate will decrease.

you think so? I doubt it.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by Domeskilla@Jul 11 2003, 01:18 AM
You didnt meantion watergate.. since i dont know anything about it, i'll just let someone who does, fill in info on what present it was, how it affected us, etc.

watergate really had nothing to do with the economy.

Watergate was actually a hotel. it just happens to be the place that nixon was playing out his illegal business. He would've made a good bookie

 

[halcyon985]

Originally posted by Domeskilla@Jul 11 2003, 12:18 AM

You didnt meantion watergate.. since i dont know anything about it, i'll just let someone who does, fill in info on what present it was, how it affected us, etc.

I find it amusing that Watergate was such a big deal when all it was was a break in... granted it was newsworthy, but at the same time COINTELPRO was coming out, the government program that had been around, and used by every administration since Roosevelt, to combat small political movements in the US. The FBI ran assassinations of political leaders, threatened people, got people fired from their jobs... but it just wasn't reported..

Politics is mostly horseshit anyway, they both serve business is the end.

All though I still would vote dem over rep....

 

[Domeskilla]

it wasn't just a break in as you call it.. it included this shit.

political burglary
bribery
extortion
phonetapping
conspiracy
obstruction of justice
destruction of evidence
tax fraud
illegal use of government agencies such as the CIA and the FBI
illegal campaign contributions
use of public money for private purposes.

that is a little more news worthy y0

 

[halcyon985]

Than COINTELPRO? I don't think so... the shredding of the US constitution and effectively making us a Totalitarian state is pretty serious. That's why it wasn't reported widely. And all those things you reported stem back to a petty break in. There wasn't actually anything even missing in the room.

 

[SixtySecondAssassin]

did you mean to say whitewater?

clinton is only one of 2 presidents to bring us out of deficit.

republicans cut taxes, and spend more, what the fuck do they think is gonna happen.

 

[E_SolSi]

i dont really see what the huge deal with a deficit is in the first place
under ideal circumstances you would want a 0 balance
but either one of those is better than a surplus

the government does not have its own money...... it has YOUR money

now if they end up with a 0 balance that means that they took just enough of YOUR money to do what they needed to do

if they end up with a deficit then that means they didnt take enough of YOUR money to do what they needed to do... and they need to take a look at their spending habits and see what spending is necissary and what isnt.... unfortunatly they usually just raise taxes and take more of YOUR money (fuckin bastards)

now finally we come to the surplus.... a surplus means they took too much of YOUR money... they had more than enough to do what they needed to do and they are going to "keep the change" because they can make better use of YOUR money than you can (fuck that)



now lets look at this situation from another angle

you need $20 worth of shit at the store... you send your little brother to the store for you

you give him a $20 bill... he goes and picks up the stuff you need for $20 (0 balance)

you give him a $20 bill... he goes and picks up the stuff you need for $20 as well as a magazine, a candy bar, and a soda.... now he doesnt have enough money on him for all of this shit (deficit)... so he either needs to go put the magazine, candy bar, and soda back (adjust spending)... or go back home and tell you the stuff you want was more expensive than you thought and he needs another $5 (raise taxes)

you give him a $50 bill and he goes and picks up the stuff you need for $20 and decides to keep the extra $30 cuz fuck you you dont need it (surplus)

 

[SixtySecondAssassin]

true. but would you rather owe some one 30 trillion dollars, or would you like that 30 trillion in your pocket?

 

[JDMilan]

damn, i check on this the next day and two pages huh,


let me just add my two cents. I hate fuckin politics. Most politicians are theives.



Milan

 

[E_SolSi]

Originally posted by SixtySecondAssassin@Jul 11 2003, 01:03 PM
true. but would you rather owe some one 30 trillion dollars, or would you like that 30 trillion in your pocket?

its not like that though

you are not the one in debt
the government is
and they are trying to take more of YOUR money to get themselves out of it
instead of the government taking more of my money i would rather have it to spend it how i see fit


you make $### per week
that is your budget
if you want to put a $3000 turbo on your car, or you have a $3000 credit card bill
you need to adjust your spending habbits to set money aside to save up $3000 or you need to adjust your spending habits so you can make payments on the credit card bill... that usually means a few less nights out drinking ($$$) a few less times going out to eat ($$$) less random spending ($$$) etc.....

you cant just go up to your boss and say " hey i need an extra $3000 this week, in addition to my regular pay, i wont be paying this back"


if the government wants to get themselves out of debt they need to start budgeting their money better... not spending it all like drunk whores then taking more of mine

 

[totalburnout]

The economy always goes in the shitter when Republicans go in office because the trend has been for the democrats to set it up that way. One term a president has doesn't cause a depression/recession/stint in the economy right away, the effects are felt further down the line.

Clinton fucked up the economy and then handed it over to GW

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by SixtySecondAssassin@Jul 11 2003, 12:43 AM
did you mean to say whitewater?

clinton is only one of 2 presidents to bring us out of deficit.

republicans cut taxes, and spend more, what the fuck do they think is gonna happen.

They don't usually cut taxes to the everyday citizen, they cut it to big business using the trickle down theory which has been proven to work.

They promote the use of big business who employs us all.


Where the fuck do you think you're going to get your green?

You give money back to the poor or moderately wealthly people and you're going to remain poor. You give the money back to industry which will use that money, produce things, and in turn employ more peoples which promotes spending and stimulates the economy.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Jul 11 2003, 11:58 AM-->

SixtySecondAssassin

@Jul 11 2003, 12:43 AM
did you mean to say whitewater?

clinton is only one of 2 presidents to bring us out of deficit.

republicans cut taxes, and spend more, what the fuck do they think is gonna happen.

They don't usually cut taxes to the everyday citizen, they cut it to big business using the trickle down theory which has been proven to work.

They promote the use of big business who employs us all.


Where the fuck do you think you're going to get your green?

You give money back to the poor or moderately wealthly people and you're going to remain poor. You give the money back to industry which will use that money, produce things, and in turn employ more peoples which promotes spending and stimulates the economy.

If it proven to work then you won't mind posting some of that proof up would you?

No? I see, no proof actually exists because every time we get someone in office that tries the "trickle down" approach it fails miserably. You can't just throw out these "proven facts" (I really hate that term) without also posting this proof.

The Republicans lie to you. They are out to get rich and stay that way. The Democrats lie to you more because they want the same thing. karnash put it best when he claimed that he was a republican because he wanted to be rich someday and that was the party that would allow him to stay rich.

Through all this bitching how many of you stay up on local/state/national politics or events? And of that group how many of you exercise your right to vote? And of that group how many of you participate in your local government? Lastly of that group how many of you are working for change?

Complaining about the way things are does nothing. Voting to change things does little. It is only when you get involved and work for change that things begin to happen.

 

[deth101]

OK this is bad but i'm leaning more and more this direction...................................
F#@king Go Militia!! :unsure:

 

[Bob Vila]

the first year when GWB Jr. was in office it was still under Good Ol' Bill Clintons budget, obviously he didnt put any motive behind it since the econmy went to shizit.

and one of the reasons why the economy sucks bizalls right now is due to 9/11 - Insurance companies have paid out millions, upon millions of dollars, not only for physical things, but as well as insurance claims on LOST dollars and wages, as well as claims resulting from that day have effected allines of insurance property and casualty, commercial, industrial lines of business have all been effected, which in turn is driving up policy premiums for all others, and its taking a toll on all companies that are in the financial area. stocks/bonds/everything is taking a hit, whcih is now snowballing into loss of jobs/cut wages.

another big thing with unemployement is large companies are now going off shore to hire independant contractors to do jobs that these companies were paying onsite people to do.

for instance the insurance company that i work for just finished laying off about 1000+ people, most of them were in our IT dept. Programmers to be exact. All of a sudden there is a MASS influx of 'off-shore' proggies coming in and working for beans (no disrespect for the off-shore peeps on the boards)

so instead of paying a proggie that was with the company for 30+years making 50-120k+ they will bring in off shorians to do the same job for 15k

this is not jsut with insurance companies but its actually effecting all companies, that is why there is such a large unemployement rate, the jobs are being offered to newly born us citizens that have just come over on their green card to make 15k a year with no benefits.

its almost appolling to see how many people have lost their jobs to bring in another person who is less qualified and doesnt know the meaning of an american dollar, who will work for nothing.

and after working on this post for the past 30 minutes, and being interuppted many times here at work ive lost my concentration, so if it doesnt make sense, stfu

And Al Gore, my dad, did invent the intArweb

 

[halcyon985]

Originally posted by E_SolSi+Jul 11 2003, 12:45 PM-->

SixtySecondAssassin

@Jul 11 2003, 01:03 PM
true. but would you rather owe some one 30 trillion dollars, or would you like that 30 trillion in your pocket?

its not like that though

you are not the one in debt
the government is
and they are trying to take more of YOUR money to get themselves out of it
instead of the government taking more of my money i would rather have it to spend it how i see fit


you make $### per week
that is your budget
if you want to put a $3000 turbo on your car, or you have a $3000 credit card bill
you need to adjust your spending habbits to set money aside to save up $3000 or you need to adjust your spending habits so you can make payments on the credit card bill... that usually means a few less nights out drinking ($$$) a few less times going out to eat ($$$) less random spending ($$$) etc.....

you cant just go up to your boss and say " hey i need an extra $3000 this week, in addition to my regular pay, i wont be paying this back"


if the government wants to get themselves out of debt they need to start budgeting their money better... not spending it all like drunk whores then taking more of mine

While you do have a point, excessive debt leads to problems with the dollar, and more importantly, if your debt really gets wracked up, you become unable to borrow more, and your economy closes down. Eventually somebody else comes in and "ownz joo" as it is so often put on here .

Don't think it couldn't happen to us either. The Ottoman Empire was once the most powerful state in the world, and it happened to them. Now whats left of them is named after food and they aren't they aren't that well off.

It's inevitable that our country will no longer be number one in the world, because nobody can be on top forever. Let's just not accelerate it with shoddy economics.

Alan Greenspan said the tax cuts were a bad idea.

Alan Greenspan = of economics. So we should listen to him. Deficit = Bad.

Oh and P.S., to go with your theory, say you give your giving your brother $20 every week, and usually your supposed to get $1 in change... but then you start getting paid less, in fact, you only have about $19 a week now. So your about breaking even, maybe losing a bit. That isn't the time to start giving your brother a tip for getting your shit from the store.

 

[SixtySecondAssassin]

Originally posted by E_SolSi+Jul 11 2003, 11:45 AM-->

SixtySecondAssassin

@Jul 11 2003, 01:03 PM
true. but would you rather owe some one 30 trillion dollars, or would you like that 30 trillion in your pocket?

its not like that though

you are not the one in debt
the government is
and they are trying to take more of YOUR money to get themselves out of it
instead of the government taking more of my money i would rather have it to spend it how i see fit


you make $### per week
that is your budget
if you want to put a $3000 turbo on your car, or you have a $3000 credit card bill
you need to adjust your spending habbits to set money aside to save up $3000 or you need to adjust your spending habits so you can make payments on the credit card bill... that usually means a few less nights out drinking ($$$) a few less times going out to eat ($$$) less random spending ($$$) etc.....

you cant just go up to your boss and say " hey i need an extra $3000 this week, in addition to my regular pay, i wont be paying this back"


if the government wants to get themselves out of debt they need to start budgeting their money better... not spending it all like drunk whores then taking more of mine

i guess thats one way of looking at it. but if the government is in dept and not us, why do we have to pay for it?

the way i see it is it never stops being your money. it pays for stuff you need. roads, schools, medicare/medicaid, etc.

so when the time comes that we do need these things, we can get them. no need for a tax increase to get us what we need in 5 years.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by lsvtec+Jul 11 2003, 01:10 PM-->

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Jul 11 2003, 11:58 AM
SixtySecondAssassin

@Jul 11 2003, 12:43 AM
did you mean to say whitewater?

clinton is only one of 2 presidents to bring us out of deficit.

republicans cut taxes, and spend more, what the fuck do they think is gonna happen.

They don't usually cut taxes to the everyday citizen, they cut it to big business using the trickle down theory which has been proven to work.

They promote the use of big business who employs us all.


Where the fuck do you think you're going to get your green?

You give money back to the poor or moderately wealthly people and you're going to remain poor. You give the money back to industry which will use that money, produce things, and in turn employ more peoples which promotes spending and stimulates the economy.

If it proven to work then you won't mind posting some of that proof up would you?

No? I see, no proof actually exists because every time we get someone in office that tries the "trickle down" approach it fails miserably. You can't just throw out these "proven facts" (I really hate that term) without also posting this proof.

The Republicans lie to you. They are out to get rich and stay that way. The Democrats lie to you more because they want the same thing. karnash put it best when he claimed that he was a republican because he wanted to be rich someday and that was the party that would allow him to stay rich.

Through all this bitching how many of you stay up on local/state/national politics or events? And of that group how many of you exercise your right to vote? And of that group how many of you participate in your local government? Lastly of that group how many of you are working for change?

Complaining about the way things are does nothing. Voting to change things does little. It is only when you get involved and work for change that things begin to happen.

LMFAO...it is proven. I was even told this by a democratic professor who thinks that republicans for the most part are the devil, but praised this economic strategy. It works.


Look up the trickle down theory, it was used in the past and it worked.


I forget what stint of presidents used it but it was one of the dominant economic strategies for a long while and still is on top, thats why its use has been employed for so long.