need help with 2000 civic si

[Black Widow g2]

if a 2.5 bar will work, why get a 3 bar? you plan on boosting over 22psi? Taken from from Xenocron.com:

Motorola 2.5 Bar
MAP Sensor Kit

Supports boost upto ~21.75 psi



$35.00


The kit includes one Motorola 2.5 Bar Map sensor,detachable connector and 12" of colored wire with online instructions to hook it into your stock MAP wiring. Upgrading from a stock Honda/Acura Map sensor that can only read ~10 psi of boost will allow you to run up to ~21.75 psi of boost as well set a boost cut in your engine management. This safety feature has saved many motors from overboosting due to many random factors/problems that occur on Turbo Charged vehicles. This sensor is extremely linear which makes for ease of tuning using the most common Honda/Acura ECU Editors available. (Crome, Neptune, Hondata, Uberdata, TurboEdit & BRE)

 

[bpounds]

Oh. I had posted the first half of that msg before I saw your msg. No, I don't plan to run any more boost. I've had to many problems with 14 psi to even think about it. lol.

This may be a dumb question b/c I didn't do a lot of research on that 2.5 moto, but does it replace my stock map sensor, or does it plug into it?

I am just wondering if I still need to buy a stock map sensor too since mine is supposively shot.

 

[Black Widow g2]

replacement.

It’s not necessary for you to cut off your stock map connector, splice into the wires just before they go into the connector so that you can use it if you ever need to revert back to a stock MAP

 

[bpounds]

Cool. Thanks for the info... Well, I've done some research and it sounds like the motorola 2.5 bar is def. the one to get hands down. I'm assuming this should work fine with my stock ECU since the turbo came with a piggy back system.

I plan to get the moto 2.5 bar and have my car dyno tuned. Do you think it should run good from doing those things or is there more involved?

Also, I still have the stock OBD2. I notice a lot of people convert to the OBD1 with a harness. Is this anything I need to look into or should everything run fine the way it is?

 

[Black Widow g2]

i almost don't want to answer this... i'm not sure, but i do know you won't want to drive too crazy before getting a tune. if the ecu is thinking it has a certain cc of injector and it doesn't, it throws the injector timing off causing you to go lean (or rich, but i usually see this as being a lean out issue). I don't know about how you'll get it tuned on obd2 though, we only see obd1 or k series and use k pro... but i'm not sure on that, either.

i'll leave this stuff for someone else since I'm afraid of misinforming you. You're welcome for the info. that's what we're here for. Let us know how it does on the dyno!

 

[YBLEGAL]

I havn't seen any OBD2 chipping, or heard anything other than OBD1 is the way to go for tuning. But your in a unique situation. You have a reason to reasearch for OBD2 tuning, so if you find any info on it, please post.

The reason your in a unique situation, is because your chassis is OBD2. The law says your motor must run OBD2 or above as well. So making your car OBD1 will make it impossible to pass emissions the legal way.

So I have no knowledge of OBD2 tuning. Please enlighen me (us)! ^_^

 

[bpounds]

Well, I assume it is obd2. I never changed it from stock (B16A2). Would that be correct? (not real knowledgable on that stuff...in the learning process).

Oh, if this helps at all, I checked the info on the piggy back and ECU.

The piggy back says Motorola SECM0403P. And I have a stock Z4 ECU.

 

[YBLEGAL]

OBD1 was most vehicles made between 92-96, and all vehicles made after 96 were OBD2, so yours is deffinatly OBD2. OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. This is how the computer takes information from sensors, and processes it. The newer the OBD system, the higher number designation it has, and the more 'intelligent' it is. OBD1 used far less than half of the information that OBD2 uses. That's just a quick overview. Check out the reference section here on hondaswap for more detailed info.

You have an '00 Civic Si, if that's correct, you have an OBD2b system (slightly newer).

There is no Z4 ECU. So maybe you looked at the wrong part of the model number, or your not looking at your ECU. The ECU is under the passenger side kickplate to the right. In any case, according to our reference section, you have a P2T ECU. And for future reference, your chassis code is EM1. If you didnt already know, that's what people are refering to when they say they have an EG civic, or whatnot.

I hope that gets you further

 

[bpounds]

Cool thanks. Yeah, that was some very helpful info. I'm starting to understand everything a little bit better.

I went ahead and bought the motorola 2.5 bar map sensor kit on ebay from xenochron. He said it will work with OBD2 and a stock ECU. I am a little worried about running it hard though in case in tears up the new map sensor. Someone said I should def. have the car tuned after I get the map sensor, but if I keep the stock ECU, I can't tune it. Any suggestions?

I think I will call Edelbrock too b/c their website says that the Performer X turbo kit requires "no additional tuning when used on otherwise stock engines."

 

[Black Widow g2]

You can tune OBD2... well, you can tune a K series motor with K Pro. There's becoming more available, but K motors are OBD2b (i think)

 

[bpounds]

Well, I def. want my car to run the best. I am still stumped on keeping the OBD2 or convert to OBD1. It looks like most people convert b/c you can tune it better... Not sure on that, but that's what I get from people's posts.

But on the other hand, I would think staying with OBD2 would be better just in case I run into engine trouble down the road and the problem I am having does not throw a code on the OBD1 since it only holds about half the info that the OBD2 holds.

Any suggestions???

pros....cons....

Has anyone on here ever tuned OBD2?

 

[bpounds]

Here is what I found so far about obd2 background and tuning (taken from OBD-II Background Information).

"
OBD-II and performance tuning
While the vast number of drivers want nothing more than dependable, economical transportation, many of us are looking to OBD-II for extra performance. Earlier on-board computer systems had chips that could be replaced to adjust engine parameters for extra speed and power. While the OBD-II systems are sealed and do not allow chip replacement, they do provide a real time data acquisition system that is useful to tuners.
Power loaders can actually reprogram the performance parameters of the OBD-II system to accommodate performance options. At the current time the number of models they can service is limited, but the range is being extended. Be sure the person doing your reprogramming keeps the car in compliance with EPA emission standards. As aftermarket manufacturers develop additional solutions, we will add their information to our links.

"

 

[YBLEGAL]

Again, unless this is a track ONLY car, or the area you live in does not emission test you CANNOT convert to OBD1!

It is illegal to downgrade emissions systems.

You cannot have anything less than an OBD2 motor in an OBD2 chassis.

OBD1 IS easier to tune, only because it has been out for almost 15 years!!

In regards to being able to diagnose a problem, OBD1 is fine. Laws are the only reason they became more intelligent. OBD2 just gets more specific as to why a device caused an error. OBD1 is more than sufficent IMO.

You might be shit outta luck. I've never known anyone w/ an OBD2 car they've needed or have tuned. BUT, people on cardomain have 2000 Si's w/ turbo and superchargers, so you know it's got to be possible.

one more time. screw converting to OBD1. ur a daily driver, ain't it?

 

[YBLEGAL]

The extra info difference between the 2 isn't like, OBD1 doesn't read air temperature where as OBD2 does. No. It's more like (fake example), instead of it telling you 'TPS error', it will tell you 'TPS error, out of range'. or 'TPS error, no signal'. etc.

the OBD1 error is enough for anyone with the job title of auto mechanic.

 

[Black Widow g2]

If he's turbocharged, why wouldn't his car need to be tuned?

 

[bpounds]

Alabama doesn't have an emissions test. Also, is it recommended to update to crome or hondata, etc? I see most people upgrade to one of those.

 

[YBLEGAL]

cool, no emissions rules. after finding a county out here that doesn't either, i'm now running no cat and 2.5" all the way back

I never said he didn't need to tune. the point of this was to say he DOES need to tune. But how on OBD2 w/ a b-series, I do not know.

Since you have no emissions worries tho, you may be able to down convert.

As far as crome or uberdata or hondata, it's not really an upgrade as it is a necessity. The only way to modify your air fuel ratios is really one of these piggy back options. A few producers like AEM make replacement ecu that cost a hole hell of alot more, for the same features + a few others, but the piggy backers should suffice. Just to be clear, the AEM and other replacement type ones will also allow you to change your a/f. I run hondata S200 in my own car. I've never experimented with other ones, so I can't tell ya which is best. Hondata is costly, i'll admit that. crome is next to free. has a few bugs (from what i've read), but does the job. My hondata has never disapointed me yet tho. Cost me about $600 for 2 chips, a socket, the S200 kit, and Hondata ROM editor (the other expensive part)

 

[bpounds]

I'll have to save up for that. In the meantime, I am still waiting to receive the motorola 2.5 bar in the mail. Someone suggested that I still don't drive so crazy after installing until I get it tuned. So, I may have to drive normal till I can afford Crome or Hondata.

Oh btw, I've been driving my car with less stress on the engine and it has been running a lot better. I shift around 5psi instead of 12-14psi, and the car hasn't been jerking or stalling. So, it seems like the 2.5 bar map sensor should do the trick. Will post results as soon as I get it.

And although the car drives a lot better shifting at 5psi, it still has a hard time making it up hills from a dead stop. The other day, I seriously did not think I was going to make it up this one hill after dropping my fiance off at work. I had the petal to the metal and my car was only going 3mph!!! I am not kidding...it did it for about 15-20 seconds until I made it to the top of the hill...It was crazy!

It happened again yesterday going up another hill...I got pissed and revved up the engine to about 6000 rpms, then dumped the clutch; it actually sped up a lot then. So, does that sound like map sensor problems to you guys?

 

[bpounds]

New News...the same day I received the 2.5 bar in the mail, I also received an email back from a tech at Edelbrock. I told him how much boost I was running; he said, "The Performer X kit is NOT designed to have the boost changed. The piggy back fuel computer is only tuned to 7 PSI. Yes the boost needs to be lowered to 7 PSI. And it states in the manual

"Boost Gauge and Boost Gauge Mounting Pod Installation
Follow the installation instructions included with the boost gauge and
mounting pod for installation. (Note: The boost gauge must be installed
to allow you to properly monitor the amount of boost pressure. If the
boost reads higher than normal (6-8 psi) for any reason, do not drive
the vehicle. Running higher than recommended boost pressures on a stock
engine could result in engine damage if driven repeatedly. Contact our
Tech Line at: 800-416-8628 for assistance if over boost occurs.)"

So, hopefully my engine is not damaged. I am going to talk to the guys who did the work on my car and then I will post more info.

 

[bpounds]

Since I am going to have my car tuned down to 7 psi, does anyone have any suggestions on which map sensor to use?

Should I keep the new motorola 2.5 bar map or return it and purchase a stock ms. I just wonder if the 2.5 will operate properly, or if there might be any problems.