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Newb and need advice

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by Sapper, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Well, by my post count, Yes I'm a newbie to Honda stuff.

    Anyway, I picked up a nice 94 Del Sol D16Z that is bone stock in the engine dept. but has many suspension upgrdes. The previous owner auto crossed it and took home many 1st place trophies. But he was an older man and took excellent care of it

    Also, I have the chance to pick up a, I think, a 94 Integra that has been crashed into a small, shallow pond. It wasn't even that bad, just water damage to the interior and the hood was bent. When the wrecker showed up, he wrapped the chain around the roof. That pretty much totalled out the car. But it has a B18b motor in it. A friend gave me some honda swap, Honda hp, and another Honda book to help me along.

    I'm not looking for all out super power, I have a big V8 for that, but I want a little more power for this little thing. I know nothing about swapping in any honda-anything so I am doing alot of searching, surfing and reading. But please don't get discouraged if I ask a repetitive question, I do use the search key. I am no stranger to horsepower or engines. I have worked on them for over 30 years and 5 in a Cylinder head shop. But the big hp motors I've built were all domestics.

    Having this Teg, Can I use the PCM and everything in the swap? and if the Tranny is not an LSD, can I use the stock Del Sol tranny which I know is an LSD.

    Thanks and this forum kicks ass compared to some of the others recommended by my local board.

    Casey
     
  2. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    Ok, alot of things youa re going to come across in your journey here (for your car anyway) is going to be about B series and D series engines, THink of it like this,

    The D series engine can be compared to a small block chevy, it's a great platform and parts are interchangable between the various engines, basically as long as the engine starts with a D, parts from other D engines will fit on/in it. You currently have a D series engine in the Del-sol, and it is one of the better ones to have, it makes good power, has a very good track of reliability and is Vtec. Basically all d series engines are single overhead cam engines (with the exception of a couple)

    The B series engine Could be compared to a Big block chevy, THey are mostly larger displacement than the D series engines and they are ALL DOHC (except the b21, (but that is an old engine and you woulnd't want to use it) Parts for B series engines are mostly interchangable with other b series engines as well, the B is a Larger engine and makes more power Stock to stock over the D series engines. the B series engine would be what is in the integra.

    Now, My comparison of the engines to big block and small block has ABSOLUTELY NO REFRENCE TO HOW UPGRADABLE THEY ARE or which is a better platform, I have seen d series engines make just as much if not more power than a B series engine I personally prefer B series engine but there are also people that prefer the D series. The only reason I took it as big block and small block is for the purpose of saying that B series parts are NOT interchangable with D series engines, EXCEPT sensors. So that being said it should answer your transmission queston.

    The integra will most likely NOT have an LSD in it, the only way it would is if it had a transmission swap or engine/transmission swap done. There are ways to tell if it has an LSD, but I'm not going to get into it right now.

    Now, you have an OBD1 del-sol, OBD1 is (I think) the best platform for running any honda, also your car is already wired for vtec and a normal 4 wire o2 sensor, so it is a good platform for any B series swap, but the engine that is in it is also a great platform to build on, so it woul dbe up to you to figure out if it is worth the trouble to swap in the integra engine for the very little gain you would get from it.
    I believe a stock d16z6 has 120hp, while a stock b18a1 or b18b1 has 130hp
    Granted the integra has more torque than the z6 I don't feel it would be worth the trouble of swapping out the engine.

    Now to the integra, you say it was in a pond, Not good, water damage is bad for every single componant on a car, ESPECIALLY ELECTRONICS. You mentioned the pcm, which here we call an ECU, but same difference, if it got wet you could have never ending problems with the car, also if the integra went into the pond running (which is what usually happens) it could have sucked water and hydro locked, which could lead to bent rods, blown headgaskets or even torn out head bolts (I have personally seen it) Also, having water in the engine is BAD, just like it would be with any engine.
    Same story with the transmission, they are not completely sealed, so if the water is high enough it can get inside the tranny, it may not completely ruin it, but rust is bad inside the tranny.
    All in all unless there is something wrong with the del-sol, I would leave it and just build on it, there are just as many aftermarket parts available for the z6 as the B series, and with the money you would save by NOT buying this integra you woul dbe able to keep your LSD and buy some good stuff for the Sol.
    :two cents:
     
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  3. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Thanks for the great info and you put it into perfect perspective...Chevy motors. Which fortunately I'm an expert at. From Gen I to Gen 3's.

    I looked around and have been reading alot. I'm seeing that the B18 is able to push more hp with mild bolt-ons than a cammed D16. My wife wants to continue auto-Xing it but we don't wan to cam it to push it into another class where guys are pushing 220+hp.
     
  4. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    I don't know alot ab out autoX, so it would be up to you you to figure out what you want to do with the classes and such.
     
  5. humblegumbo

    humblegumbo 1595cc's of Mad Fury

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    Motor Info pulled from Wikipedia:

    D16Z6
    Found in:
    1992-1995 Honda Civic EX/Si, Del Sol Si,
    Displacement : 1590 cm3
    Bore and Stroke : 75 mm X 90 mm
    Compression : 9.4:1
    Power : 125 hp @ 6500 rpm & 106 ft·lbf @ 5200 rpm, 80bhp
    VTEC Switchover 4800 rpm
    Valvetrain : SOHC VTEC
    Fuel Control : OBD-1 MPFI
    Head Code : P08
    Head Code (EU): P28​


    B18B1

    Non-VTEC
    Found in:
    1994-2001 Acura Integra "RS/LS/GS" (DC4/DB7)
    Displacement: 1834 cc
    Compression: 9.2:1
    Bore: 81 mm
    Stroke: 89 mm
    Power: 142 hp @ 6300 rpm & 127 ft·lbf @ 5200 rpm
    Transmission: Y80/S80

    Just goes to show that even in the world of rice cookers, there's no replacement for displacement.
     
  6. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    WOW, I was told that my Del Sol motor was NOT a VTEC. How do I know for sure?

    I'm sure you guys telling me is enough, but wouldn't it say VTEC on the valve cover?

    DAMN, I hate asking stupid Q's. Maybe I'll shove a LS1 in it :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2007
  7. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Well, I already bought the car and it's sitting on my trailer. It's a 94 Teg, base model, B18B1 engine, Hyd Tranny etc. I haven't checked the ecm yet to see if it got soaked.

    Are the brakes an upgrade or the same? This Teg has brand new Calipers, rotors and pads all the way around, brand new tires on Acura 14" rims. Are there any other parts that is an upgrade for a Sol?

    About the only thing salvagable on the exterior is the tailights.
     
  8. delsolcharlie

    delsolcharlie New Member

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  9. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Ok, one more newb question.

    So, if I have this entire Teg to work with, I shouldn't need to buy any special aftermarket parts / pieces?
    From what I understand in other, but not very clear, threads, all the Integra linkages, wiring, ECM, etc should just swap right into it.

    The Honda swap book I have just covers the basics but says the difficulty is a straight swap w/ minimal wiring.

    This should be it, until I start doing it. I just want to be ready when I do start it and have everything I need. The motor will be gone through and all the essentials replaced: w/p, timing belt, tensioner, etc. And most likey I will do a P&P while I'm in there. (that I'm very experienced in)
     
  10. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    i would pull the engine out of the teg and hold onto it. part out the integra for what you can. i would wait on doing the swap until the d16 blows. or you could try to get around $400 for it.

    it's a straight swap. you wont have to do any special wiring. you have all the mounts and everything that you need.

    oh yeah, post some pics of both cars.
     
  11. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    I would be a little scared of an engine that saw a pond but you seem to know enough about engines, maybe not this particular kind, to know the condition of a motor. But like everyone said, it's your choice to swap or not. Both have very good potential. If you don't mind me asking, how much did you buy the Integra for? You might be able to part it out and actually turn a profit on it. And saying that what color was it? My Integra could use a new fender(among other things) if it's still in good shape.
     
  12. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Ok, the pic thing will have to wait cause my wife drowned my camera as well while on vacation in Ca.. So I have to buy a new one...again. The first one was blown up in Iraq.

    As for the Teg, I'm tearing the whole motor down for a possible rebuild anyway. I want to start fresh. Money is not an big issue. I'm not rich, just my wife is an Asst Mgr of an Advance Auto parts and I don't take chances.
    her car

    As for whats good on the car...l/f fender still has no dents, left tail light wasn't broke and the hatch and glass wasn't damaged or broke. Other than that...uh it kinda got F------d up.

    I have a feeling I will need an ecm though...hopefully not

    Edit: I paid $175 and it's black
     
  13. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    And so it continues.
    Granted I don't lilke to shortcut and I only buy quality components...BUT, I do believe in pinching pennies but not quality. I'll pay if I have to.

    I found these ( I love ebay) pistons and was going to get a set of Eagle rods w/ 3/8 bolts, King allecular bearings and have a local shop touch up my crank.

    What do you think of these pistons?
     
  14. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    Ok, not sure if anyone said this, but you DO need to buy different shift linkage if you want to put that engine in the del-sol, otherwise it is a direct swap.
    you need 95 del-sol dohc VTEC shift linkage; it will be longer than the integra linkage so that it will reach the correct spot on the del-sol.
    Use all of the rest of the parts from the integra including the throttle cable, axles, all the mounts and the engine wiring harness,
    if the del sol has power steering you will have to take the power steering pump and pressure hose (goes from top of p/s pump down to the rack) off the integra and put it on the del-sol
     
  15. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Man, I'm beginning to really love this site.

    ok, got all that, How about a/c?. I feel like I'm gonna owe someone some money here soon.

    I'm on 24 hour duty till 0900 tomorrow morning, so I have nothing better to do than surf the net most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2007
  16. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    100% nailed the hammer with the whatever, NEVER USE AFTERMARKET ON HONDA BEARINGS OR YOU WILL REGRET IT (unless you got lucky)
    If you use aftermarket rods from crower they recommend that you use green or yellow bearings (I know this means nothing to you right now, but when you go to honda and order them you will understand) Get yourself a Haynes manual for the integra, it has the best explaination (I think) for getting the color coding right if you use stock rods.

    Got me o the a/c. . . I THINK you have to use the 95 del sol a/c bracket with the stock del-sol compressor, but I AM NOT 100% on that one
     
  17. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    Oh yah, send donations to. . .
    just kidding
     
  18. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Man, I am so dizzy from reading...B16 this, B18 that, D..B.. GSR, ek,eg...ARRRGHGGHGGHHHHHH!!!!

    Now I'm trying to decide if this swap is really the way to go. Some guys say that the D16 has alot of potential. But the B18 always pulls just a little more hp, @ 10 or so. Then I thought of the B16 head swap. That seems to be about a 40hp diff. gaining the VTEC.

    What really screws me up is the hp #'s. I see 150-200 and I have to remember that these cars only weigh 2300 lbs. I'm used to seeing 400+ and seeing 110-150 hp gains from head/cam swaps.

    AH well, I'll get used to it. I love nitrous, a total idiot with turbos and know alot about blowers. But I'm not that rich. I just get lucky finding deals.

    If I do this swap, it will be a 100% drop in, ready to go. All parts aquired, mounted and...well, a turn key motor. Since I'm in no hurry with the current plant running real good. OR I just may clean up this B18, go through it and sell it as an entire swap. Decisions, decisions??
     
  19. Sapper

    Sapper Just a new old guy

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    Well stupid me. I finally noticed that my valve cover says VTEC. But I'm seriously considering the Vtec head swap on the B18B before I drop it in. I read up on all the write-ups on how to do it and it seems so easy. Now I just need to find a good, complete head.

    BTW, is that little thingy about 3 inches behind and to the right if the distributor the VTEC Solenoid? And if so, is it interchangable with other motors?
     
  20. welfare

    welfare Ancient Member

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    Yes and Yes, I have changed them from d series to b series, the part numbers are all the same.
     
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