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Non-Staggered Wheels

Discussion in 's2000' started by GlassHeadlights, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    I've read on two differen magazines (Sport Compact Car & Super Street) and from FObangah on here that if you go to the same size wheels all around it improves the handling.

    Are there any side effects?

    What would be an ideal size? 17x7 or 8?

    Thanks.
     
  2. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Only if you set up the suspension correctly and corner balance the car- then you have a REALLY sweet setup. If I was doing it, I would go with 17x9 or 17x9.5 and the largest stickiest tire I could fit on it.
     
  3. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    So just the wheels wouldn't help.
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    No. You'll oversteer like hell without the right suspension setup to compensate for the larger front tires. Think about it- the S2k is already prone to oversteer. Drop in a ton more rubber up front and you might have some issues if you're not ready for them.
     
  5. Ronny Cage

    Ronny Cage DaughterTestedMomApproved

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    most ap1s handle well with 245 45 16 on all rear wheels for autox. Ive consistently read this. or in A stock class 245 45 16 on stock ap1 16s staggere is also ideal. lots of championships won with either setup.
     
  6. Korax

    Korax New Member

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    I say do like the Amuse/Opera GT1 Turbo and decide you want to build an s2000 around non staggered GT-R34 wheels/tires. Seemed to work out well for them :ph34r:.
     
  7. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    J's Racing record holding s2000 handles with the same size offset and width all around.
     
  8. Ronny Cage

    Ronny Cage DaughterTestedMomApproved

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    front sway bar will kill alot of the oversteer.

    the sanear bar works well but clanks around alot.

    mugen is a bit more expensive but not adjustable,

    the gendron bar is about 600$ and I hear its amazing... its just always limited orders so I keep hearing

    be weary of older comptech adjustables but the new ones are improved. they are quite costly. but a wider tire is easy to battle with a bit of suspension work.
     
  9. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    My dads friend had a Porche with 16" rims but he bought a M3 so he had a set of new tires he gave to my dad.

    They're 225/50/16 for the front and 245/55/16 for the rear.

    Would they even fit on the factory rims? If so would that be a bad combo?


    I also fully understand just changing tires or rims won't make it outstanding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  10. Ronny Cage

    Ronny Cage DaughterTestedMomApproved

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    actually Im running 225 50 16 R comps for auto x now up front with 2454516 in the rear. as long as you dont mind having a tiny bit of a taller tire then youd be fine! I also run the same sizes on my all season winter wheels for now. so I think you should be fine as long as the rear isnt lowered too much,

    but yes those staggered sizes will do.it'l handle a ton better if as well. let me know how you like the new tires!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
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  11. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    The tires are BF Goodrich Comp T/A.

    My dads friend bought them in like 2000, but they're still brand new not put on a rim.

    Thanks for the help guys!
     
  12. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    those Comp t/a's arent that great of a tire..
     
  13. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    But you can't beat free.

    I actually looked at them again and they're 225/50/16 for the front and 245/45/16 for the rear.
     
  14. Ronny Cage

    Ronny Cage DaughterTestedMomApproved

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    exact same sizes Im running right now... not bad but.... Id def make sure the tread isnt dryrotting... tires normally last a max of 4-5 years.... even your high end bfgs
     
  15. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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  16. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    That's what I intend to run in the near future... cheaper overall too. ;)

    I've got a Comptech v2 bought and waiting for me- one hell of a steal on the price too. I just have to get it from my old roommate...

    Perfect. Same sizes I'm running now. It will still oversteer more than the stock setup though.
     
  17. FObangah

    FObangah New Member

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    This is an EXTREMELY hot topic among the S2000 guys.
    Saying the S2000 is prone to oversteer is a little extreme, but mostly is based on opinion ( I've heard people say it alot ). I think its the "snap" oversteer people feel, which is the nature of any higher powered, low torque, RWD....Just ask the AE86 guys.
    As for the S2000, You have to physically lock the tires up ( hand break or aggressive down shift ), clutch-dump, or yoke the hell out of the steering wheel while punching the gas at high rpm (power-over/power slide) for it to step out on you WITH THE STOCK WIDTHS AND OFFSETS.
    The car has a tremendous amount of understeer ( for a rwd ) when on the throttle, but when off throttle, the car has a more ballanced feel. HONDA knew this when the car released. You think they didn't dumb the S2000 down for the not-so-skilled drivers of the world??? Anyone driving on long sweepers or entrance/exit ramps in normal or aggressive daily driving will vouch for the understeer to oversteer comparison. It's hard to tell on the smaller tighter turns do to the fact you are decelerating the majority of the turn. I however cannot vouch for the 05 up offsets. Never driven on them, but they are ballanced about the same ( just wider )

    As far as 90civicboys SITUATION goes, its his fathers car. He doesn't have any plans, as of right now, to screw with the suspension ( atleast from what 90civ is telling me. ) Just looking to improve the handling. But Calesta is spot on about a nice suspension setup and matching offsets, which is proven (very well) by J's racings' S2000 that 90civ mentioned.

    Stock wheel config; he's got the right idea. Stick with stock width out back and a little wider in the front. Afterall, isn't that what honda did with the AP2??

    Our discussion however was on stepping up to 17"s. So I put together the most ideal package I could think of;

    Same offset and width all the way around-approx. 45 offset, between 205 and 225 widths, choose height based on comfort vs handling needs :
    Everyone ( who owns an ap1 ) knows the rear offset is less than the front- 65 rear, 55 front. Running the same offset, for example 45, pushes the rear wheels out 20 and the front out 10. This offset also fills the wheel-wells nicely.

    Lets say the width is 225, you've gained 10mm of contact patch in the front and dropped 20 in the rear. You guys know math...see where I'm going with this?
    My 205 to 225 idea was based on performance vs price. 205 in the 17" variety can be had for as low as $40 brand new, but won't offer the contact patch the 215 and 225's will. 225's may cost more than 205's but they don't cost any where near what 245's do. Not to mention, when the width of a wheel goes up, so does the price. 17x7.5-8.0 is an extremely common size and opens up his selection, while keeping the price low. this wheel size will also accomidate the tire sizes above well. Shop and compare suckas....
    By the way, I hope we aren't forgeting he lives in Canada???^_^ I'd hate to pay all that money for a set of wheels and tires to see them get ate up with road salt or the tires dry rot from not driving it. Plus, if he decides to git rid of the wheels, its alot easier to sell unstaggered wheels than it is a custom setup. Keeping cost down seems like a must though....
    On top of that, his dad isn't a race car driver, he's not looking for the most killer setup he can run. He's just like the majority of us, he goes out and enjoys the car.... when the weather permits it. There's alot of things here to consider, and this is exactly what I told him in our PM's.

    Personally, I was running 225/45/17 @45 offset all the way around, with no suspension mods, and had no troubles with oversteer under any load. Yes it was easier to break the rear end lose, but the slide had to be INDUCED, never was it accidental. The majority of the on throttle push in turns was gone. My size is just an example though. When it comes down to it.... Handling is just like pus**, some like it tight, some like it loose. But we all like it;)

    By the way... what the hell did you guys decide on, other than rebuilding the car/boat port???
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  18. FObangah

    FObangah New Member

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    Oh yeah , for those not in the know.... the stock rear 225 that came on the ap1 was actually more like 235-245. But im sure the s2k guys know that allready.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  19. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    You know exactly what we're thinking without ever metting us.

    We are about 50 miles from Seattle so our cars aren't rusted here. Eastern Canada has much worse cars.

    Take my Civic for example, it has 315,000 KMS (like 200,000 ish miles) and its completly rust free.

    New York probably has probably worse cars.


    Anywho, my dad just wants to drive his car, and in such a bad way. When the insurance runs up on his hatch, in 4 weeks, he's insuring the S2K.

    The tires on his car right now have 80% left, then we have the extra set of 16's. So its a few years maybe before he'll consider new rims and tires.


    The shop is under insurance, we get up to $22,500.

    My dads friend, who also got his boat crushed, has a brother in construction and he's going to rebuild it bigger, badder and stronger. His quote was about $18,000.

    My dad has a seperate storage insurance on the boat so its covered.

    I think first the shop, then my dads friends boat then the Mustang, maybe.:D
     
  20. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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