crvtec monster

[asmallsol]

I could contact Payn Tech. http://www.payntechnologies.com/

Tom Payn help ceate this block. It is designed to withstand incredibale amounts of boost, and correct any flaws of the b series in performance respects.

What are your goals for this? If your just looking at a street setup, totally overkill. If your making this for your track horse, go for it (if you have the cash)

 

[simplyfast]

well maybe its my fault i can tune a high compression/low boost engine without having to worry bout detonation. its all bout takin the proper precautions before you crank it over and run it. but furthermore, if you understood what i was saying you wouldnt be crying detonation. low boost will give you a cooler intake charge because you arent compressing a larger volume of air.
ie:the tube connecting an air compressor with the tank. ever noticed how hot it gets? ever stop to think why it becomes so hot? its simple. when you compress a gas it becomes hot because the molecules are tightly confined, running into each other. now the less gas you compress the less molecules that are packed into a tight space.
that is where effeciency comes into play. if you have a cooler intake charge runnin thru an intercooler, the intercooler can cool it even further.

if you have a low compression/high boost engine which is charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, and a high compression/low boost engine that is also charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, which one is going to be cooler? it goes right back to the example i gave.

i dont know your history of automobile knowledge, as you dont know mine. all i know is you need to do some reading about the volumetrics of an engine, and how to gain the most effeciency from a turbo.

 

[phunky.buddha]

:roll:

 

[Iquark]

Originally posted by simplyfast@Dec 7 2003, 10:30 PM
well maybe its my fault i can tune a high compression/low boost engine without having to worry bout detonation. its all bout takin the proper precautions before you crank it over and run it. but furthermore, if you understood what i was saying you wouldnt be crying detonation. low boost will give you a cooler intake charge because you arent compressing a larger volume of air.
ie:the tube connecting an air compressor with the tank. ever noticed how hot it gets? ever stop to think why it becomes so hot? its simple. when you compress a gas it becomes hot because the molecules are tightly confined, running into each other. now the less gas you compress the less molecules that are packed into a tight space.
that is where effeciency comes into play. if you have a cooler intake charge runnin thru an intercooler, the intercooler can cool it even further.

if you have a low compression/high boost engine which is charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, and a high compression/low boost engine that is also charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, which one is going to be cooler? it goes right back to the example i gave.

i dont know your history of automobile knowledge, as you dont know mine. all i know is you need to do some reading about the volumetrics of an engine, and how to gain the most effeciency from a turbo.

I think you're saying is talking about PV=nRt, which you may or may not know. This states that Pressure*Volume must = #of Moles of fluid*gas constant*temperature in kelvins. If you say that, wait, you didn't say anything that we didn't know...


All you said was that if you used low boost and high compression the intake charge temp would be cooler... I guess that's right. But don't think you won this argument, because the fact is that we would all rather have a higher boost application with the lower compression. This is simply because we build motors for power, not just efficiency. If I wanted an ecinomical turbo city car like they have in europe, I would probably have a higher comp engine with low boost like say 4-6 psi. I guess all I'm trying to say is that sure your Idea is good for certain applications, but not in this case.

 

[simplyfast]

no you go with high boost for braggin rights. if you really wanted the most power out of an engine you would concentrate on making it as effecient as possible. formula 1 strives for the most effecient engines they can build, and look at what they have built. 3 liter v10's that churn out 800hp..they used barilium til formula 1 outlawed use of radioactive metals. now they use sponge cranks/rods to acheive lightweight/top strength.

are you familiar with the old one?

 

[phunky.buddha]

Larry's not God, and he sure as hell isn't right about everything.

 

[E_SolSi]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Iquark]

Look, if I were doing a street setup, and not an F1, or extreme competition car, I would run around 12-15 psi, and not really worry about efficiency too much. Sure if I was building a race car, or an all out car, with days at a time on the dyno, and 113 race gas all the time, I might go for a higher compression setup. However, in a normal case, it's easier and cheaper to just go with a little higher boost to compensate for the drop in compression. Just my .02 and that's all that matters to me...

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by simplyfast@Dec 8 2003, 12:30 AM
well maybe its my fault i can tune a high compression/low boost engine without having to worry bout detonation. its all bout takin the proper precautions before you crank it over and run it. but furthermore, if you understood what i was saying you wouldnt be crying detonation. low boost will give you a cooler intake charge because you arent compressing a larger volume of air.
ie:the tube connecting an air compressor with the tank. ever noticed how hot it gets? ever stop to think why it becomes so hot? its simple. when you compress a gas it becomes hot because the molecules are tightly confined, running into each other. now the less gas you compress the less molecules that are packed into a tight space.
that is where effeciency comes into play. if you have a cooler intake charge runnin thru an intercooler, the intercooler can cool it even further.

if you have a low compression/high boost engine which is charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, and a high compression/low boost engine that is also charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, which one is going to be cooler? it goes right back to the example i gave.

i dont know your history of automobile knowledge, as you dont know mine. all i know is you need to do some reading about the volumetrics of an engine, and how to gain the most effeciency from a turbo.

Alright, since your such a great physicist, I'm going to use your own example.

its simple. when you compress a gas it becomes hot because the molecules are tightly confined, running into each other.

Thanks for proving my point. If you take that same "500ccs" of intake charge, thats nice and cool from "low boost" as you say, what do you think happens to it? It is compressed immensly by the motor, and since pressure = heat (which I learned oh, say, when I was in middle school maybe). Your once "cool" and "efficient" intake charge is compressed so heavily that the gas you put in the engine ignited itself. Thats when you lower the compression.

And as for your "efficient engine" example. I'm sure all those turbo drag cars are using 8.5 or less compression so they can run big boost numbers to impress the ladies? Yea, I doubt it.

The bottom line is, yes, for low boost and pretty low power, higher compression and lower boost is the way to go. But if you want high power, and not a friggen headache (or even something impossible to tune) You HAVE to drop the compression. Unless your going to run your daily driver on alchohol or 120 octane super gas???? You have to.

And just so I don't seem one sided, Yes, the most efficient engine setup will utilize the highest possible compression ratio, to minimize turbo lag and maximize low RPM power. But what is "possible" with regards to tuning, budget, and practicality is a lowER compression ratio. I don't sit here and sight laws from my physics classes. It is easy to see the most efficient thing number wise. But the best advice comes from basing yourself in reality, not la la land.


That is why it has become standard to reccomend a low compression for boosted apps.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by simplyfast@Dec 8 2003, 01:30 AM
well maybe its my fault i can tune a high compression/low boost engine without having to worry bout detonation. its all bout takin the proper precautions before you crank it over and run it. but furthermore, if you understood what i was saying you wouldnt be crying detonation. low boost will give you a cooler intake charge because you arent compressing a larger volume of air.
ie:the tube connecting an air compressor with the tank. ever noticed how hot it gets? ever stop to think why it becomes so hot? its simple. when you compress a gas it becomes hot because the molecules are tightly confined, running into each other. now the less gas you compress the less molecules that are packed into a tight space.
that is where effeciency comes into play. if you have a cooler intake charge runnin thru an intercooler, the intercooler can cool it even further.

if you have a low compression/high boost engine which is charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, and a high compression/low boost engine that is also charging the cylinder with 500cc's of air, which one is going to be cooler? it goes right back to the example i gave.

i dont know your history of automobile knowledge, as you dont know mine. all i know is you need to do some reading about the volumetrics of an engine, and how to gain the most effeciency from a turbo.

thermodynamics says the hotter the air, the more rapidly it can be cooled, also the lowest intake temp you can get is ambient, unless you have a air/liquid intercooler with ice or something.

what is volumetrics?

 

[simplyfast]

its standard to have low compression/high boost cause of people like you.

what causes detonation? a hot spot somewhere in the combustion chamber.

did you know a man built an 8psi turbo haybusa engine with stock internals and runnin pump gas? i watched his video run too, and he didnt have any problems with detonation as he went 0-220mph in about 15 seconds.

listen, i can write for days and days and you might be able to catch my drift, but it all depends on who is workin the engine.

it takes one of two things to complete a high compression/low boost engine-an msd 6btm ignition or a programmable ecu with someone who can tune it. see, i can make 500hp with a high compression/low boost turbo on a b16 engine with stock guts...in fact i can do that with only changin the valve train.

but see youre missin the big picture of, 16psi in a 9:1 compression chamber is the same as 8psi in a 10.5:1 compression chamber. its all how you tune it!

 

[phunky.buddha]

Sure, and the fact that you have 50% more air being forced into the 16psi engine than the 8psi engine, which gives you the opportunity to burn more fuel. More fuel combusted = more power, so you always want to get as much air and fuel into the combustion chamber as possible. A slight increase in your static compression ratio will help some under pressure, but not as much as force feeding twice as much air and fuel.

 

[liquid00meth]

Using compression all your doing is yes, making more "efficient" use of the amount of air you have. But raising the compression a point isn't going to give nearly the stability or power of shoving 50% more air into the engine. And it goes back to issues of whats realistic and safe. I also concur with Calesta on all his points. Your advice is just wack man. You are ignoring reality, and what is right for the people asking for help.

 

[simplyfast]

you would think that huh? but its not true.

if that was true n/a engines would never make power. its all about how well you compress the intake charge. the better compression you get the more complete the burn will be. you make horsepower by burning as much fuel/air as you can before that exhaust valve pops open.

listen, you can pack all the air/fuel in you can, but if you are not coolin it properly or throwing a strong enough spark, your wasting the potential of your engine/turbo. thats why i say high compression/low boost is better because it is much more effecient...youre getting more bang for your buck.