EG4 swap to B16A sir2, obd1 engine starting problem, solid cel.

[LoweLow]

Hlo. I own eg4 with a swapped B16A sir2 jdm engine. I have read everything from the forum and from the google what i can found with no conclusion so thats why iam desperate writing a story here with couple of questions. :S

About two months ago i was driving home from work and suddenly my engine died and that really came from nowhere. Car has always worked properly and perfectly and ive done all services for the engine and for the car to keep it that way. There has ever been any problems with starting it even in -30c degrees on winter time, yes oh fuck we have temperatures like that for couple of weeks/months per year.
The reason for broke down was a broken block, it has came to its end(180tkm). T belt was not snapped and it was okay and tight.
So it was not bent the valves thank god and the engine head were not broken so, there is now repaid block with new pistons, connecting rods and everything with old refurbished engine head with old polished valves etc.


NOW! Engine compressions are over 13 and engine feels great and its running like new.


The PROBLEM!?:

Engine wont start. It cranks(rolls) and cranks and cranks but doesnt even give a hope for starting. Giving help with start spray it will start and the engine sounds perfect, it rolls perfect and everything works, but it wont start without start spray help. Like i said it will start with help and after i have got the engine running with start spray it runs without problems and i can drive with it till i turn it off it works fine, '
BUT there is check engine light on and it wont go pass 3000rpm, so i think the engine is in "limp mode". I have tought if the check engine light is on because it may result from long crank time with starting it with start spray, maybe? Engine seems to get fuel and spark also(fuel pump runs).
Like i said i have already read everything about the problem/s that i can find from internet and i have tried to reconnect every single sensors and wires and i have double checked every wire where it so post to be and where it is. And yes MAP sensor and TPS sensors are connected right with right wires also.
There is new spark plugs with one step colder heat range than stock(7), stock is 6 NGK Iridium 7eix. I have checked for the grounding from the thermostat and every groundings of the engine and those were fine looking and well tightened. Battery is also in good condition.

OBD1 CEL codes. Check engine light pops up after ignition is on and after 2 secs it shuts down. I have tried to readthe cel codes with jumper wire from the 2 pin wire behind the glove box. After i did connected the jumper the check engine light stays and wont shut down. Is this the code 0(solid cel)? Does it mean my ecu has died even i havent make any changes to the car what has worked many years without problems?

The last thing i thought and i havent checked is if it may be the timing if its skipped a tooth or 2 while install.


The car:
-92 Civic eg4 B16A sir 2 engine swap.
OBD1Xenocron p30 chipped and tuned ecu (Knock sensor and ELD disabled).

 

[LoweLow]

AFTER posted this i found a thread about this. DAMN, why i havent found this before posting! :0
http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...solid-cel-heres-what-i-did-tons-pics-2458280/


Well it seems there is couple of things i need to check still and recheck some groundings before purchasing anything anymore, i have spent a lot of money to this car to get it on the road again because i just love it and driving with it.

A: 15amp fuse is already checked from the engine bay its in good condition.

B: ACG fuse under the dash i have to check

C: I havent disconnected the sensor one by one and checked the check engine to go away have to do that also.

D: I havent changed the main relay

E: I havent sanded the groundings from the thermostat and i didnt even know there is a grounding in the seat rail have to check that1 also.

F:The ecu aaah i hope not because i have an chipped and tuned ecu from Xenocron and its not cheap 1.

 

[dilbeckskate]

There are so many variables and diagnosing a swap like this it's not really possible to do over the internet without looking at the car but I would start with a known good stock ECU and go from there also check valve timing

 

[dilbeckskate]

My last dual cam zc build wouldn't start on its own power without starting fluid just from a bad valve adjustment

 

[Briansol]

if it runs after it starts, there's nothing wrong with any parts/fuses. You're having a timing issue. a bad ecu wouldn't run the car at all. you're in limp mode from an improperly connected sensor. I could guess at it being the map, tps, or o2 sensor wiring. Re-check your distributor plug wires. if they are out of sync it won't fire.

 

[dilbeckskate]

if it runs after it starts, there's nothing wrong with any parts/fuses. You're having a timing issue. a bad ecu wouldn't run the car at all. you're in limp mode from an improperly connected sensor. I could guess at it being the map, tps, or o2 sensor wiring. Re-check your distributor plug wires. if they are out of sync it won't fire.

I agree 100% after thinking, check your sensor plugs isnt it easy to cross the idle air and tps ersumshit ?

 

[dilbeckskate]

if it runs after it starts, there's nothing wrong with any parts/fuses. You're having a timing issue. a bad ecu wouldn't run the car at all. you're in limp mode from an improperly connected sensor. I could guess at it being the map, tps, or o2 sensor wiring. Re-check your distributor plug wires. if they are out of sync it won't fire.

and actually ive never seen it with obd2 but I have seen a few bad ecu's that would run the car poorly and one time had a 3g accord roll in that would only fire up and run 1 time in the morning when you first started it and after you cut it off the ecu would stay blinking and car wouldnt run again and turned out bad ecu

 

[LoweLow]

There are so many variables and diagnosing a swap like this it's not really possible to do over the internet without looking at the car but I would start with a known good stock ECU and go from there also check valve timing

DAMN, i dont have other ecu and here in Finland this engine and car is pretty rare so i dont know anyone who has p30 ecu. :/

My last dual cam zc build wouldn't start on its own power without starting fluid just from a bad valve adjustment

I think it cant be the bad valve adjustment because like i said its running smooth. There is none knocking sounds from the engine it sounds great when its running.

if it runs after it starts, there's nothing wrong with any parts/fuses. You're having a timing issue. a bad ecu wouldn't run the car at all. you're in limp mode from an improperly connected sensor. I could guess at it being the map, tps, or o2 sensor wiring. Re-check your distributor plug wires. if they are out of sync it won't fire.

Okay, very good point! I will check the timing and all sensors once or twice more. All sensors seems to be properly connected, maybe there still are some wires connected to wrong sensors. :0
Which sensors are capable to turn the limp mode on on ecu? I will also check the distributor wires again.

I agree 100% after thinking, check your sensor plugs isnt it easy to cross the idle air and tps ersumshit ?

On JDM engine its seems there is no place for idle air temperature sensor and the wire is just hanging out there, but another intake temperature sensor is there attached to intake manifold. Am i right?
My problem is which wire connector goes for intake temperature sensor because those 2 grey connectors are looking like same. Which colored wires are going to intake temp sensor?



Anyway bullshit failure but have to keep my mind calm and try to fix this shhhhit. :S I will take couple of pictures for you because 1 picture tells more than 1000 words.

 

[LoweLow]

HELP really i need good advices NOW, please!?!?!?!
Allright. I got the engine running without spray!!! and i did drive with it almost 50kilometres WOOHOO, or not:




The strange thing is that it wont start with all the right harness wires connected it just cranks and cranks. But when i change the TPS wire to MAP sensor and the MAP wire to TPS sensor car starts right away like always before this engine broke. THIS is very strange and im confused. And just for reminding engine sounds perfect no knockins NOTHING.
If i leave the wires like that(crossed) when i push the gas pedal engine lose its power. But if i change the wires while the engine is running cross back where they so post to go car works fine.
After i got the engine running 1 time it doesnt matter anymore where the map and tps wires are connected it still starts without problem after cutting it off, this is also VERY confusing!?!?!?!?

There is a another problem, yes iam out of limp mode and no more solid CEL, but the check engine is still on. AND the problem is that my idle speed is over 2000rpm(2000-2500).
So i did check the CEL codes again and now it was also showing codes! It did show the code 6 and 10.
6 ECT - water temperature sensor
10 IAT - intake air temperature sensor
I cleared the CEL and the check engine is on still(code 10).
After i have driven it i did check the codes again and suddenly there was 6 codes available!!! Well i didnt believe it can be true so again i did clear the CEL and its showing the code 10 again.
Mentioned 6 codes:
4 CKP - crank position sensor
5 MAP - manifold absolute pressure sensor
6 ECT - water temperature sensor
8 TDC - top dead centre sensor
20 Electrical load detector --------WTF----- my ecu has ELD and knock sensor DISABLED?
43 Fuel supply system




Fuses also are all fine.

I havent sanded the groundings from the thermostat and from the seat rail because it did start and runs.

I havent disconnected the sensor one by one and checked the check engine to go away because there are a CEL code now.

I did check and double check all the wireharness plugs now couple of time based on internet information(link) and all of my engine sensors have correct harness wires with correct coloured wires. Only exception there is the map sensor left side 1st wire which is yellow/green instead than on the web says it should be yellow/red. But the car has been running 8 years with this swap with these wires so thats must be fine.

I didnt check the valve or belt timing because i managed to start the engine and drive with it so i dont think the timing is wrong, engine works very well without any knock sounds.

I think it cant be bad ecu also because the car really runs without problems and the VTEC also does work better than fine.

I also did check the main fuse and it did look pretty fine, i didnt saw any bad joints there, but still i DID re soldered all the joints. Also if i unplug the fuse there are no sounds when i switch the ignition on. But if i plug the fuse i can hear the fuel pump test running very clear, so it works.



MAP wire

TPS wire

What could cause all this shit? Trust me everything is connected, i also re checked the manifold screws and gasket, they are tight no air leaks.

Could the starting problem be faulty FPR?(link)
Could the high idle problem be the faulty water temp sensor or faulty intake air temperature sensor?

 

[dilbeckskate]

Sounds like maybe a vac leak and some crossed up wiring

 

[LoweLow]

Found the starting problem, it was legendary bad(rusty) grounding on thermostat. I did use a sand paper and car did start up right away.

Idle is on 1500rpm. I will check the vacuum leaks tomorrow. After that i will check the throttle unit and clean and oil it.
I already did remove the iat sensor and it was covered black by oil from the inside of manifold. I did clean it but i didnt matter. If above mentioned fixes wont work i will order a new iat sensor and try if that helps.